Talk:Crowninshield family

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Republicans?

The article states "The early Crowninshields were Republicans and were noted for their strong support of Thomas Jefferson," however Jefferson was a member of the Democratic-Republican party, which is not an immediate predecessor of the modern Republican party. To call a Jeffersonian a "Republican" is factually incorrect in the timeframe implied, though "Old Republican" might be appropriate to specify his faction within the party.

Family tree?

I was working on a related article and aam very confused about this family. This article seems to mix two different Georges for example. The elder George had the shipping business and died in 1815, while the younger George Jr died in 1817 after the yacht trip, according to my sources. And there were quite a few with the name Benjamin. It is not clear at all how they are related. I will try to work on this a bit, but any help would be appreciated. W Nowicki (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Danish roots?

Johannes Kaspar Richter von Kronenschieldt (1661-1711), the progenitor of the Crowninshield family, was baptized at St. Thomas Church (J.S. Bach's church) in Leipzig.^[1] His father is said to have come "from the south of Denmark". Did that make him Danish? No, because the so-called south of Denmark, the duchy of Holstein, was a territory in the Holy Roman (German) Empire ruled by the kings of Denmark in a personal union. The King of Denmark represented the duchy of Holstein in the German Federation (Deutscher Bund) until 1864. In 1866, the duchy of Holstein and the duchy of Schleswig (to the north) became the Prussian province of Schleswig-Holstein. In 1949, Schleswig-Holstein became a state in the Federal Republic of Germany. It follows that the Crowninshield family roots are German (as is the name Richter).

^ [http://http://www.geni.com/people/Dr-Johannes-Kaspar-Richter-von-Kronenschieldt/6000000009979650400

Chicago260 (talk) 12:52, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Old Saxon"?

That doesn't make any sense. It's not a geographic, linguistic, political, or ethnic category applicable to anyone in the 1600s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.79.36.249 (talk) 17:01, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Richard

"Richard" might be Richard Crowninshield, a murderer who committed suicide in jail in 1830 and brother to one George Crowninshield. But he seems to have been a bit old to be that murderer, and his brother was alive after 1830. See Halttunen, Karen. Murder Most Foul: the Killer and the American Gothic Imagination. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1998. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-murder-in-salem-64885035/ tells of the crime's use by both Hawthorne and Poe (See also Mabbott, Thomas Ollive, ed. Collected Works of Edgar Allan Poe. 3 vols. Cambridge: Belknap, 1978). 10:53, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

This source (http://www.murderpedia.org/male.K/k/knapp-brothers.htm) says Richard was only 28 at the time of the murder, so that would rule out the "Richard" on the family tree being the murderer, assuming the age is correct. Kdammers (talk)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Crowninshield family. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:44, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Crowninshield family. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100212035825/http://www.historybuff.com/library/refelephant.html to http://www.historybuff.com/library/refelephant.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:44, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please note: Fake "Old Saxon" and fake "Dane".

Where is the proof for "Old Saxon" and "Southern Denmark"? There is none, so far, until proven. A few hints: Old Saxons (Altsachsen) are the ethnic people stemming from what is nowadays Westphalia and Lower Saxony; definitely not the area which is today's state of Saxony! What is today's state of Saxony has historically been populated by native local Slavs and neighboring Thuringians as well as settlers from ethnic German lands to the West thereof. This area has never been populated by Altsachsen. Southern Denmark would be, at the most and not very precisely said but very tolerantly seen, the area North of Hamburg at times. This area, which is German Schleswig-Holstein and the Danish area of Nordschleswig today, has mostly been settled by ethnic Germans in history; Nordschleswig mostly to a lesser degree. There were and are settling pockets of ethnic Danes leftover in Schleswig-Holstein, but ethnic Danes are a minority there. There is not the slightest hint for "Richter von Kronenscheldt" having been born there or stemming from there either, and none of the names in that family are remotely Danish. Also "baptized in Leipzig" means at Leipzig in today's state of Saxony as there is and never has been a place called Leipzig (which is of slavic roots meaning linden trees itself) anywhere near Denmark even. The whole story seems, nicely said, highly dubious. Much more likely is this piece of information: "Baptized 22-JUN-1661 as 'Johann Kaspar Richter.' The 'von Kroninschielt' was added later. JKR was a 'natural son' of his father while the latter was a student. JKR accidentally killed a person in Germany during a fray. Emigrated from Leipzig to America, Boston area, about 1694. Later settled near Browne-Bartholomew Ponds in what is now Peabody MA." Source: http://www.stevechamberlin.com/family/public/Johann-Kasper-Richter-von-Kronenscheldt-562.html Now, here we see the much more likely reasons for a flight out of the reach of German jurisdiction, the nebulizing of the past, and the adaption of a fake royalty family name to complete the new start in the new country after leaving the unpleasant past behind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C0:DF13:F500:DC7:2C88:267A:D89C (talk) 11:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not the “first major pepper sea trade”

The article claims: “The family was responsible for starting the first major pepper sea trade. The earlier pepper trade between Asia and Europe had been land-based.” This is false. Trading in pepper across the Mediterranean was old news in the 16th century, and it seems likely that earlier traffic across the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean (India to Arabia) would qualify as “sea trade.” Pepper was an important revenue source, possibly the no. 1 source, for the Republic of Venice, the leading sea power in Europe until remote colonies put Spain and Portugal in the lead. I’ll provide sources if challenged.

Maybe the trade started by the Crowninshields (and their foreign trading partners) was the first trans-Atlantic “major” pepper trade (although “major” seems like a possible weasel word). Can we just describe the family’s accomplishment accurately without claiming global priority? — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 13:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[baptsm-1] [http://http://www.geni.com/people/Dr-Johannes-Kaspar-Richter-von-Kronenschieldt/6000000009979650400

[1]