Talk:DeWitt Clinton High School

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Reasoning for assessment: nationally known HS; many notable alumni; needs major restructuring to fit WPSchools structure. Notable alumni should probably be moved to its own page.SBaker43 (talk) 05:07, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
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NPOV: this article is a brochure for the school.

I agree. Rhobite 06:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree either. The school has somewhat of an extensive history that allows it to have many positive things listed, but it doesn't really get out of line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrsyedali (talkcontribs) 20:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Extensive edit[edit]

I've removed unsupported assertions (except for the Redbook cite, which is barely acceptable if one cares to wade through the Redbook site, which I didn't) and unreferenced comparisons, both internally and to other schools. The list of notable alumni truly is notable, and I've left it untouched, but other non-notable information has been deleted. I've also given this a copy edit, removing grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. For the editor who wanted to know what was POV in this article -- in general, assertions about something being "better" than something else need to be attributed to someone with a neutral point of view, ideally in such a way that anyone can look up the reference and verify it if they so desire. Otherwise, it's opinion, and that's POV. I (and all other Wikipedia editors) welcome input from students/friends of this school into this article, but it has to be presented in a useful and neutral form and with specific citations. By the way, the NNDB link seems to give a different, smaller list of notable alumni. Accounting4Taste 22:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The final entry in the list of notable alumni (Timan Goshit, first African American accepted at MIT. (Class 2009)) seems not only out of alphabetical order but implausible -- apparently this person has been accepted at MIT two years before they graduate from high school, and I doubt that s/he's the first African American accepted at MIT. I've removed it. There's also an entry in the list of schools named after notable alumni (Abraham Bernstein) that doesn't have an entry in the list of alumni, but I will leave that for someone with more knowledge than mine. Accounting4Taste 19:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I checked the MIT site and they've accepted African-Americans for decades. Accounting4Taste 19:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

(possibly) "unsupported" assertion[edit]

The mention of "unsupported assertions" above, brings to mind that footnote [42] (at least, as of this version of the article: ) simply points to the entire web site, -- so, it is not very specific about which "page" of that web site supposedly supports the assertion that

DeWitt Clinton High School has the largest high school Alumni Association in the world!

One reason why I mention this, is that the above quote seems to conflict with the second sentence of , which says that a certain other high school, (C. E. Byrd High School)

has the largest alumni association [1] of any U.S. high school.

Now, the article about C._E._Byrd_High_School might be wrong, but in any event, the footnote [42] (see above) for this article, should be made more specific about which "page" of that web site supposedly supports the assertion that

DeWitt Clinton High School has the largest high school Alumni Association in the world!

. --Mike Schwartz (talk) 03:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

anonymous addition of club information[edit]

An anonymous user added information on clubs, using the SHOUT STYLE (all caps). I'm going to edit that to Proper Name Style (initial caps), and put in a format mirroring the Sports section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


I am concerned about the objective and fairness of the Wikipedia article on DeWitt Clinton High School in the Bronx, New York. In particular I would like to discuss the opening paragraph of the article (#1) and the last paragraph (#2) in the section History. Here they are:

(#1) DeWitt Clinton High School is a public high school located in Bedford Park, Bronx, New York City, New York. After more than a century in existence (first in Manhattan, then the Bronx) and a raft of famous alumni, DeWitt Clinton High School has recently fallen on hard times. In 2010, it had, according to data released by New York State, the city’s “most heavily armed student body.” [1] After the school received failing grades in its progress reports for two years in a two year ts in a row, the City considered closing the school and principal Geraldine Ambrosio announced her intention to retire.[2] In June 2013 it was announced that former Department of Education deputy chancellor Santiago Taveras was appointed principal.[3]

(#2) Recently, DeWitt Clinton High School has received poor evaluations from the New York City Department of Education. In the latest Progress Report (2010–11) the school received a grade of F (39.4 out of 100) with the worst marks in school environment and closing the achievement gap.[9] The Quality Report for the academic year 2011-12 rated the school as "underdeveloped," its lowest rating. It particularly faulted the school for failing to design "engaging, rigorous and coherent curricula" and for failing to ensure that teaching was "aligned to the curriculum, engaging, and differentiated to enable all students to produce meaningful work products."[10]

As for (#1), I offer these concerns: 1. Some of the information is outdated. The paragraph uses statistics from a 2010 state report that no longer reflects the current realty as shown in the 2012 state report on weapons in New York City public schools. 2. Descriptions used in the original paragraph reflect the language of the New York Daily News and cannot be found in the state’s report. On June 29, 2013 UWatch310 added this statement to the first paragraph of the DWC Wikipedia entry: “As of 2010, the school is notorious for being one of the most dangerous public schools in all of America.[1]” On July 10, 2013, I edited this statement out of the first paragraph because neither the state report nor the Daily News had called DWC “one of the most dangerous schools in America.” Later that day, because I did not explain the reason for editing the paragraph, Yintan returned the original paragraph. Still the same day, I supplied Wikipedia this reason: (The statement I deleted is not supported by the Daily News reference. The News does not describe Clinton as one of the most dangerous schools in America.) Wikipedia, apparently checking the Daily News article, removed the inaccurate statement. But on July 11, 2013, Anthromimus added the following to the paragraph: “In 2010, it had, according to data released by New York State, the city’s “most heavily armed student body.” [2]” Anthromimus correctly quoted the Daily News, which in fact used the description “most heavily armed student body.” The problem is that while the Daily News used that description, the state report did not. Anthromimus’s sentence makes it sound as if the state said that DWC has the “most heavily armed student body.” The state used the less dramatic terminology “weapons confiscated by scanning and other means).

3. The state would never use the description “most heavily armed student body” because statistics when given in brief do not always tell the whole story. After all, are all weapons created equal? Is a school with 30 weapons more heavily armed than a school with 25 weapons? Maybe not. If the 30-weapon school means 10 guns and 20 knives and the 25-weapon school means 15 guns and 10 knives, which school is really more heavily armed? That is why the state would never make that judgment and that is why the Daily News’s “most heavily armed student body” description, along with its “one of the most dangerous schools in America” description, passes the threshold of inflammatory language.

4. Even though DWC is ranked 1 (in 2010) and 2 (in 2012) in raw numbers of weapons, a true evaluation of these numbers would require taking into consideration the number of students in the sample. Which is worse? Five guns found in a student population of 4,000 or five guns found in a student population of 900? Most historians and journalists would agree that when the populations used in a comparison vary greatly, the use of percentage statistics rather than raw statistics gives a more accurate and fairer evaluation. By using percentages for the 2012 statistics, DWC ranked 13th in the percentage of weapons to students.

As for (#2) I offer this concern:

While correctly assessing what the Progress Report stated, the Wikipedia paragraph has ignored the “fairness standard” by giving no space to educational experts who question the validity of the city’s criteria used to judge Clinton. Just because the government says something doesn’t mean it’s true. I could easily show how Clinton was set up to fail by the Department of Education because it wanted to show that large schools don’t work. Clinton was one of the most highly rated schools in NYC (Redbook April 1996, US News & World Report January 1999) before Bloomberg became mayor. As Bloomberg spent hundreds of millions of dollars to “reform” the schools, Clinton began to have more and more problems. Why did it have more problems when the city was spending a fortune to improve schools? Because when the city closed failing high schools, it put those schools’ most challenging students in Clinton. It took ten years to “destroy” Clinton, which shows how good it was. It lasted as long as it could while more and more challenging students were dumped on it. Your article should allow for a counterpoint to the government report.

I know that Wikipedia pays great attention to make sure that articles are not love letters with fanciful claims, but it is also important to insure that entries are fair minded and not intended to malign someone or institution. When you see the entry “one of the most dangerous schools in America,” you have to wonder if the person making that entry was just careless or out to make the school look bad. If you like, I would be glad to submit replacement paragraphs that would be more objective.

Thank you

Glaring error in list of DeWitt Clinton notable alumni[edit]

As a graduate of this school (class of 1966)who is not on the list despite being a wikipedia biographical subject, I was stunned to find a person listed who could not possibly have been a student there. As the article accurately states, the school did not become co-ed until 1983. Therefore the noted actress Doris Roberts who is a female and older than myself could not have graduated from Clinton in the 1950's or 60's. The lack of any other female names on the list prior to 1983 would seem to buttress this assertion. I am positive a call or e-mail to Ms. Roberts reps in Los Angeles or New York will clarify this matter easily as will an inquiry to any of the living members of the list who would have been contemporaneous with Ms. Roberts. RON CANADA (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Hoping to sweep away the broom next to (talk) 06:07, 4 January 2015 (UTC)DeWitt Clinton notable alumni[edit]

I am hoping to remove the broom and warnings about the notable alumni of DeWitt Clinton High School. I supplied most of the names after researching the school for nine years, which ended with the my publication of The Castle on the Parkway: The Story of New York City's DeWitt Clinton High School and Its Extraordinary Influence on American Life. Hutch Press, 2009, revised 2012. ISBN 978-1-883269-30-2. The book was reviewed by Sam Roberts in the New York Times on the Web on February 19, 2010 and in the paper on February 21, 2010. Here is the link to the Times article (scroll down): All of the people listed in the Wikipedia list of DWC Notable Alumni are in my book with the exception of the following: Lincoln Alexander (1922-2012), Lieutenant Governor of Ontario (Your Wikipedia article on him says he went to DWC.) Victor Altchek, M. D.,1919-2013, surgeon, (class of 1935) Samuel Bea (1932-2013), New York State Assemblyman and community activist[36] ( Eugene Emond, World War II B-17 Pilot and Officer of the New York Federal Reserve (class of 1928) (Your Wikipedia article on him says he went to DWC.) Template:Hal Miller, Actor, Sesame Street, "Gordon", Law & Order,Singer, Lyricist, Published Poet, Painter Saactchi on line. Gustave Nemhauser, M.D. (class of 1923). Lester Wunderman, advertising expert, consultant, professor, author, photographer (class of 1936).[66] Martin Yaslowitz, Photographer (class of 1966). Altchek, Nemhauser, Wunderman, Yaslowitz graduated from DWC. School records show this. I cannot verify Hal Miller so you could remove him.== (talk) 06:07, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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  1. ^
  2. ^ Samuels, Tanyanika; Chapman, Ben (August 29, 2012). "DeWitt Clinton High School makes dishonor roll: Judged most heavily armed with 33 weapons seized, 252 ‘violent or disruptive’ events in 2010". New York Daily News. Retrieved July 1, 2013.