Talk:Demographic history of Russia

A fact from Demographic history of Russia appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 January 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that most Russian cities were destroyed as a result of the Mongol invasion?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Demographic history of Russia.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 20:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that over-population and an increased tax burden caused one of the most severe collapses of the population of Russia? It was during this period of intense external and internal conflict (the Livonian War and oprichnina) that Russia experienced a demographic disaster of the first magnitude. The specific trigger was a poor harvest in 1567. .... Normally such bad harvests did not result in a famine .... However, the increased press of taxation ..., coming on top of an economic system stressed to the brink by overpopulation, meant that peasants could not afford to keep sufficient grain to tide them over a period of dearth. Turchin, P.; Nefedov, S. (2009), Secular Cycles, Princeton University Press, ISBN 978-0691136967
- ALT1:... that most Russian cities were destroyed as a result of the Mongol invasion? Юг и северо-восток Руси избежали демографической катастрофы – но именно на эти области пришелся страшный удар монгольской орды. Из 74 русских городов 49 были разорены монголами, 14 из них так и не поднялись из пепла, а 15 превратились в села. В Московской земле погибло 2/3 всех селений, в земле вятичей - 9/10. Нефедов, С. А. (2002). "О демографических циклах в истории средневековой Руси". Клио. 3: 193–203.

** ALT2:... that Russian landlords tried to prevent their peasant households from being counted in censuses by combining several households into one? переписчикъ объявлялъ, чтобы онѣ „у переписки крестьянъ и бобылей не таили, людей изъ нѣсколькихъ дворовъ въ одинъ не переводили, чужихъ крестьянъ и бобылей заочно за собой пе писали, а крестьянъ своихъ и бобылей „людьми" или служками и дѣтенышами не называли Седашев, В. (1912). Очерки и материалы по истории землевладения Московской Руси в XVII веке. Москва: В. Рихтера. p. 203.

Reviewed: Thilagavathi

Created by Alaexis (talk). Self-nominated at 20:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Article was created on 2 January and nominated on the same day. It has about 6,500 characters and is within policy (no copyvio, cites sources inline, NPOV). The hooks are short enough, appear in the text and are backed up by inline citations. All three will have to be accepted in good faith because ALT0's source is offline and those of ALT1 and ALT2 are in Russian. In my view ALT1 has the most interesting fact, while I don't find ALT2 is hooky enough to be used. QPQ is confirmed. This is good to go, but I'd still encourage the nominator to add a reference to the "Ethnic composition" since it's currently the one paragraph without one. Modussiccandi (talk) 23:15, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Ethnic composition section needs to be referenced. SL93 (talk) 00:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SL93:, @Modussiccandi: Thanks for reviewing, I've added a source for that section. Alaexis_¿question? 17:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Restoring tick. SL93 (talk) 01:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Response

Re this edit, I don't agree with the change, as Rus would not be a right name for the state that existed in the 16-18th centuries whose demographics are discussed in this article.

Rus history is definitely not owned by Russia. The Demographic history of Poland article has some data about modern Ukraine and Belarus and it's linked from this article. Once we have more information it would probably make sense to create separate article for Demographic history of Rus, Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Tsardom of Russia, etc. For now I don't think the scope of this article would lead to confusion. Alaexis_¿question? 13:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the fact of the matter is that interwiki to Russian Wikipedia article is not quite correct to say the least. Russian article covers only "Население Древней Руси" (that is, population of Kievan Rus'), whilst our one covers entire Demographic history of Russia, up to modern Russia. Article dedicated only to Kievan Rus' would be quite correctly titled with "Rus'" (rather than "Russian"), but this is not the case here. This article is more comparable to History of Russia (which includes Kievan Rus' but not limited to it). I would suggest breaking interwiki as incorrect. Bests, --Seryo93 (talk) 20:38, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the scope of the ru-wiki article is narrower. There is an article in ru-wiki about the population of the Russian Empire (starting from 1678) and nothing about the period between Kievan Rus and Russian Empire so I figured even a partial overlap would warrant an interwiki link. I don't have a strong opinion about it, if you feel it does more harm than good feel free to remove it. Alaexis_¿question? 20:51, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think, making interwiki with {{R with possibilities}} redirect (Demographics of Kievan Rus' → Demographic history of Russia#Kievan Rus, Mongol invasion and vassalage) would be a workable solution for the time being. Bests, --Seryo93 (talk) 13:40, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good! Alaexis_¿question? 15:18, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]