Talk:Drunken Sailor

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Variant Lyrics section, revisited

Please do not "prune" verses from the Lyrics section unless absolutely necessary (e.g., in the case of obvious vandalism). While it would be useful to note which verses have historically been sung on ships, many have been handed down without any primary sources being available. More importantly, most of the verses listed have been well-used by at least one contemporary performer or recreation organization, which is every bit as legitimate as the historical verses, and much easier to verify. For a song with literally thousands of verses, it is appropriate to provide an extensive selection (say, at least twenty-five or thirty items), including both historical and contemporary examples. Songs articles are the most useful when they can be used to research variations the reader may not be familiar with.

Yes, a few people are going to slip made-up verses in. Many of these will be promptly deleted. But it's better to let one or two fake ones slip by, than to delete dozens of legitimate ones. StoneRaven (talk) 06:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are not "thousands of verses." There is, on one hand, the verses that were documented to have been sung in tradition. I think you'll find this to have been remarkably few and consistent, if you see the historical documentation. Then there is, on the other hand, the principle that, in chanties, improvisation and creation, when needed, was appropriate. If that's the principle—and it seems to have been the approach adopted by revival singers in the modern era—then that means the possible number of verses is endless, and one is as good as another. The best approach, I think, is to include widely attested verses, and all the while to be specific about where/when they have been sung. Most of all, this is an encyclopedia, not a lyrics website. If the verses are notable and easy to verify, then verify them. Otherwise, as in all things Wikipedia, they are subject to removal. DrBaldhead (talk) 02:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Variant Lyrics section

This seems to be turning into a free-for-all/anything goes section where people are putting in whatever lyrics they or their friends have made up or have vaguely heard elsewhere. I'll do some digging around for sources, but this section is due for at least a pruning Bwithh 00:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've now pruned the section to include only lyrics referencable from google books. Added an external link for claimed further variants Bwithh 00:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to find alternative lyrics... sad to see that the section has "been pruned" to only include those lyrics which have been published by google books rather than the wide variety of lyrics that people and "thier friends have vaguely heard elsewhere" since that is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Too bad creativity has been censored for lack of corporate support. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.237.179 (talk) 01:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the Chorus section should there not be a variant of 'Hoo, Way up she rises' or 'Hoo-Ray up she rises'? This is the version that I have always known. ---Rifleman jay (talk) 09:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Random Walk

There is also a famous setting for a Random Walk, watching a drunken sailor as a markov process. Will he arrive savely aboard - or end up in the sea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.78.2.200 (talk) 17:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I too came here looking for the math problem, didn't know there was a song, would be interesting to see if there is any relation. The problem there is, given that the sailor chooses his road at random, will he reach a given location or not, and when? (Will have to go back to maths for now, may return to read more...)ntg (talk) 22:02, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Origin: Óró sé do bheatha abhaile?

The tune to this song sounds nothing like any version of "Oro, Se do Bheatha Bhaile" that I've ever heard. Daver852 (talk) 16:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)daver852[reply]

File:Óró sé do bheatha 'bhaile.jpg

Óró sé do bheatha 'bhaile note sheet

Here are the note sheets for both Óró sé do bheatha 'bhaile and What shall we do with the drunken sailor. As you can see from the notes the tune is the same, just in a different key, showing that the latter is more than likely derivative of the first. Stwff (talk) 17:15, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your link to the Óró sheet music doesn't work, but the tunes vary significantly enough that unless a more definite link is established, it's not really correct to link the two from melodic similarity alone. 198.147.175.203 (talk) 18:27, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

History

What does it mean that "Such songs were the only ones allowed in the Royal Navy"?--65.6.44.55 (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can't prove it but I think this song might go back to the 1700s. It's so overused in colonial naval movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.9.168.208 (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reference point #26 attributes the addition of "Put him in a bed with the Captain's Daughter" to be reference to a bawdy tale by Oscar Brand. That is in error. Right here on Wikipedia the Captain's Daughter is referred to as the Cat O'nine Tails Glossary_of_nautical_terms and Cat o' nine tails under the history tab. And the kiss of the Captain's Daughter was one every sailor did not want to experience. JohnStJohn61 (talk) 01:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That Glossary of nautical terms is a joke - substandard Wiki trivia stuff. It’s unreferenced. Do you have evidence that the “captain’s daughter” verse, nowadays sung by landlubber Folk performers, was traditional to the “Drunken Sailor” shanty? If so, present it. But remember: it would have to be ‘’before Oscar Brand’s recording. DrBaldhead (talk) 09:07, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Make him kiss the gardeners daughter"

Shouldn't that be "kiss the gunner's daughter"? Fvasconcellos (t·c) 02:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is that? I know the verse "Lock him in the bed with the Captain's daughter" means whipping with a Cat o'9 tails multi whip/flog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.33.18.10 (talk) 13:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Notable" Recordings and "Parodies"

These sections need some revision badly. However, before that's done, contributors (especially anonymous ones) should be aware of what is suitable for inclusion. As always on WP, if it's not suitable, it may be removed. Here is the place to discuss it if that happens. First, I don't see much difference between the section on Recordings and the section on "Variations and Parodies." One is a subset of the other, basically, and in any case I don't see what is encyclopedic about a list of parodies of a song. Second, both sections have just been laundry lists. "Oh yeah and there's also X...And there's also Y...and there is also Z, my favorite TV show/band." Practically none of it is notable. It doesn't matter that the band or TV show has been itself established as "notable" by having its own WP page. If that band or show or video game used "Drunken Sailor," and it is notable for them/it, note it on their/its page, w/ wikilink to Drunken Sailor article. But if someone is coming to an encyclopedia to learn about the song "Drunken Sailor," they just do not care to know every single piece of the billion pieces of media that have used it. It is not rare in media. Notable instances are the very earliest recordings or recordings that created a paradigm shift in the way the song was sung, or recordings that introduced it to a new wide audience who previously did not know it....or something else that is used as the ONE or TWO examples of a point that is being made. If it was recorded by So and So in the 1920s, say, after previously only being an oral song among sailors, that is notable. If it's recorded by a Rock band in the 2000s after 100000000 people have recorded it, that is probably not notable. Hence almost all of these trivia links are exchangeable with each other. DrBaldhead (talk) 22:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should this be mentioned?

So, the new E3 trailer for Dishonored came out and the song was sung (with different lyrics) in it. Should this be mentioned in any way? Here is a link to the video for reference. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XbQgdSlsd0&feature=player_embedded#! Yenrx (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. Rob (talk) 18:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should the song "Drunken Whaler" be mentioned here? The song that accompanied the trailer for Dishonored. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar5vbD8IDFI --Packinheat2u (talk) 13:13, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nope Rob (talk) 15:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure? many wikipedia pages have a section "in popular culture" where they mention if the elemnt of that wikipedia appears in other media of popular culture (as in this case, a videogame). Personally I think I would make sense to mention this "drunken whaler" version. 190.172.107.198 (talk) 00:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)Annonymus person[reply]

It was interesting to note the women's 'naughty' song information by Dr. Anne Coren. It is possible that women - whose husbands may have been at sea - would be singing this as a 'work' song and would be inventing their own 'naughty' verses, perhaps, even 'coded' for their own understanding. It is, also, possibly, a 'capstan' song, sung by sailors when walking around the capstan and, in this instance, it may refer to the anchor being raised. Someone mentions raising sails, but that would be done to a slower, 'hauling' song ('Yo heave-o', for example) when they would all haul together on the accented words/notes. My grandfather was a sailor - a 'donkeyman' on sailing ships. A 'donkeyman' looked after the 'donkey' engines which were used to raise the sails before they started to use steam to propel the ship. (he told me that sails could weigh three tons, dry-weight, of canvas; add the spars and ropes and that was a lot of weight to shift. Put some water and wind into the mix and you'll understand why 'hauling' songs were slower.) I seem to remember my grandfather telling me the 'captain's daughter' was the cat-o-nine-tails, thus, a flogging - drunkenness was, often, punished in this way. As for the words, songs may be sung quite differently by each different group. My grandfather sang funny words to 'The Sailor's Hornpipe' music (it has no 'official' words) some were 'naughty', but they, always, ended with: 'and we'll have another drink before the ship sails, boys'. The Royal and Merchant fleets, apparently, had different songs and merchant sailors did not dance whereas, I understand, Royal Navy sailors did (something to do with keeping fit, I believe). I hope I have added something useful to the discussion but, as the people who were there at the time have, now, all passed away, we have only conjecture about a lot of what happened and what they sang. I'm sure there will be some sources, but where? and will those sources be accurate? It's a pity people didn't record the mundane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whassname (talk • contribs) 22:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dating of Óró sé do bheatha abhaile

That the reference to "Bonnie Prince Charlie, ...would date the song to the third Jacobite rising of 1745–6" is dubious as many Jacobite songs were written considerably later than the events portrayed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:42, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]