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Removed material on use/Advert tag

[edit]

This page had a notability tag, so I set out to see if it is notable enough to be mentioned in academic articles, news sources, books, etc, and found quite considerable references. To establish notability, I think it is important to cite some of this here. I also included material on the editor, as he does not have a page (and created a link here from the disamb page on his name. While I was doing that, other Lopifalko has done more work on it, so my edits were caught in an edit conflict, but Lopifalko radically trimmed material relating to the editor and to other media sources referring to it. (Note, when Lucas is quoted in the media, it is almost always in his capacity as editor of EA WorldView.) I've pasted here my edits. I personally think at least some of this needs to be here, (a) to establish notability, and (b) to make it a comprehensible article. Boleyn added an advert tag, which I think is unjustified. Discussion please?

On sourcing: In its early years, the site was used as a source by Reuters,[1] and the Christian Science Monitor on Iran[2][3][4] and by The Washington Post,[5] The Atlantic,[6] The Daily Mail,[7] The Times of Israel[8] and The Daily Telegraph on Syria, with the latter's Richard Spencer of describing the site in a 2014 blogpost as "a blog of admittedly variable quality produced by academics at the University of Birmingham".[9] More recently, the site has been used as a source by the Daily Mirror on Syria.[10]

On the editor: The editor, Scott Lucas, regularly writes for CNN,[11] the Irish Independent,[12] TheConversation[13] and other news outlets, as well as having written commissioned reports for the UK Government’s Department for International Development.[14] According to the University of Birmingham, Lucas is the author of 12 academic books, editor of the Journal of American Studies, member of the Advisory Board of the Centre for American Studies and Research at American University Beirut, previous Visiting Professor at the Clinton Institute for American Studies at University College Dublin and Adjunct Professor of the Institute for North American and European Studies at the University of Tehran,[15] as well as a former essayist for the New Statesman, wrote and presented Suez: The Missing Dimension for BBC Radio 4 and co-directed the 2007 film Laban! on the “People’s Power” rising of 1986 in the Philippines.[16] He has been quoted as an expert by CNN,[17], the BBC,[18] Al-Jazeera[19] and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.[20]

BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:35, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article said "The site has been referenced by Reuters, The Washington Post,..." and I did not consider this a notable achievement. "the site was used as a source by" implies a bit more notability, but only a bit. It feels like it is scraping the barrel to me. As for "The editor, Scott Lucas, regularly writes for CNN...", this is about Scott Lucas and not about EA WorldView, so to my understanding is not relevant for this article. If you disagree I will not get in the way as I have voiced made my opinion. My interest is in removing cruft, trimming the article back to what is notable, so I and others can see where material might be needed to expand it with supporting info that proves notability where it exists. -Lopifalko (talk) 17:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
thanks Lopifalko. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:02, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Bobfrombrockley, it reads very much as if it was written by an employee. 'Expert analysis', information on where you can see its archives etc. Boleyn (talk) 18:37, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, I have zero connection to EA Worldview. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:02, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I broadly agree with Lopifalko here, and am concerned about the article's notability. Bondegezou (talk) 12:15, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But doesn't the deleted material pretty clearly show the notability of the topic? It shows significant coverage, over quite a few years, by a range of reliable sources. BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Can you give us quotes from these sources that support what you're saying please? -Lopifalko (talk) 14:14, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good question. I didn't check all the links that were there in the old version, so I'll look now. OK, here we go: “(I expect) nothing beyond a general statement of intentions to keep talks going through spring,” professor Scott Lucas of EA WorldView, a specialist website on Iran and Syria, told Reuters Global Oil Forum.--Reuters 2015; "God, please accept this vote from me," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted a 95-year-old man in Damavand saying as he passed away, according to a translation by EAWorldview.--CSM 2012; Aerial surveillance inside Iran is not new, according to a Washington Post report from early 2005 noted by the EAWorldview website.--CSM 2011; Still, a leading parliamentarian has criticized Ahmadinejad’s “tribal management of affairs” with his sackings – among a number of protests by Iranian parliamentarians – and concluded, “Only the wheedlers will be left over,” according to a translation by the EAWorldview Website.--CSM 2010; The EA Worldview blog writes of the reports, "The speed at which these videos were posted, and the speed at which the eyewitness reports [surfaces] that did NOT include the videos, adds credibility that at least one helicopter was shot down." The blog adds, "We're cautiously optimistic that all three videos will be confirmed as showing the same helicopter."--WaPo 2012; Scott Lucas, an Iran specialist at Britain's Birmingham University and editor of the EA WorldView website, believes the video is real. But he says the real point of contention is what the video actually shows.--The Atlantic 2013; A source in the Syrian military force told EA World View: 'We have an obligation to liberate the city... I swear to god the highest we are not scared.'--DM 2015; The Iranian news agency ABNA also reported that Eskandari died in Syrian fighting, according to news and analysis website EA Worldview.--Times of Israel 2014; "A big step came in autumn 2012 with the Iranian commitment to build up and lead the National Defence Forces (NDF) militias to cover the depleted Syrian Army," said Professor Scott Lucas, a University of Birmingham academic and founder of the EA WorldView website.--Al-Jazeera 2017; The difficulty in reporting on the ground in Syria has opened up an information vacuum which has been partially filled by highly partisan sources, according to Scott Lucas, a professor of international politics at the University of Birmingham and editor of news and analysis site EA Worldview--BBC 2018; Channel 4, Snopes, EA Worldview and Pulse Media and others have done thorough fact-checking debunking Bartlett in particular.--an opinion piece in AJ 2016; The reformist movement “has no organizational capacity and no recognized candidate right now,” said Scott Lucas of EA worldview, a news website that monitors Iranian media.--Reuters 2013; “Trump’s reluctance toward the fight in Syria will practically provide more room for Hezbollah, a major player in Syria, to grow and flourish,” said U.K.-based Middle East scholar Scott Lucas, an editor at the EA Worldview research organization.--Voice of America 2017. As well as Lucas, Business Insider's senior news editor Michael Kelley regularly used James Miller's Syria reports for EAW in 2013[1][2][3][4] None of these are particularly noteworthy in themselves, but they show that, although it is occasionally (up to 2014) referred to as a blog, EAW is taken seriously as a source by mainstream media and by specialist journalists from RSs, and has been for eight years. This is how the Irish Independent described Lucas in July this year: {{|Professor Lucas is the founder and editor of EA WorldView, a leading website in daily news and analysis of Iran, Turkey, Syria, and the wider Middle East, as well as US foreign policy.}}[5] What do you think? BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Picking through these one by one, striking out those I would discount:
  1. “(I expect) nothing beyond a general statement of intentions to keep talks going through spring,” professor Scott Lucas of EA WorldView, a specialist website on Iran and Syria, told Reuters Global Oil Forum.--Reuters 2015;
  2. "God, please accept this vote from me," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted a 95-year-old man in Damavand saying as he passed away, according to a translation by EAWorldview.--CSM 2012;
  3. Aerial surveillance inside Iran is not new, according to a Washington Post report from early 2005 noted by the EAWorldview website.--CSM 2011;
  4. Still, a leading parliamentarian has criticized Ahmadinejad’s “tribal management of affairs” with his sackings – among a number of protests by Iranian parliamentarians – and concluded, “Only the wheedlers will be left over,” according to a translation by the EAWorldview Website.--CSM 2010;
  5. The EA Worldview blog writes of the reports, "The speed at which these videos were posted, and the speed at which the eyewitness reports [surfaces] that did NOT include the videos, adds credibility that at least one helicopter was shot down." The blog adds, "We're cautiously optimistic that all three videos will be confirmed as showing the same helicopter."--WaPo 2012;
  6. Scott Lucas, an Iran specialist at Britain's Birmingham University and editor of the EA WorldView website, believes the video is real. But he says the real point of contention is what the video actually shows.--The Atlantic 2013;
  7. A source in the Syrian military force told EA World View: 'We have an obligation to liberate the city... I swear to god the highest we are not scared.'--DM 2015;
  8. The Iranian news agency ABNA also reported that Eskandari died in Syrian fighting, according to news and analysis website EA Worldview.--Times of Israel 2014;
  9. "A big step came in autumn 2012 with the Iranian commitment to build up and lead the National Defence Forces (NDF) militias to cover the depleted Syrian Army," said Professor Scott Lucas, a University of Birmingham academic and founder of the EA WorldView website.--Al-Jazeera 2017;
  10. The difficulty in reporting on the ground in Syria has opened up an information vacuum which has been partially filled by highly partisan sources, according to Scott Lucas, a professor of international politics at the University of Birmingham and editor of news and analysis site EA Worldview--BBC 2018;
  11. Channel 4, Snopes, EA Worldview and Pulse Media and others have done thorough fact-checking debunking Bartlett in particular.--an opinion piece in AJ 2016;
  12. The reformist movement “has no organizational capacity and no recognized candidate right now,” said Scott Lucas of EA worldview, a news website that monitors Iranian media.--Reuters 2013;
  13. “Trump’s reluctance toward the fight in Syria will practically provide more room for Hezbollah, a major player in Syria, to grow and flourish,” said U.K.-based Middle East scholar Scott Lucas, an editor at the EA Worldview research organization.--Voice of America 2017.
  14. As well as Lucas, Business Insider's senior news editor Michael Kelley regularly used James Miller's Syria reports for EAW in 2013[6][7][8][9]
None of these are particularly noteworthy in themselves, but they show that, although it is occasionally (up to 2014) referred to as a blog, EAW is taken seriously as a source by mainstream media and by specialist journalists from RSs, and has been for eight years. This is how the Irish Independent described Lucas in July this year: Professor Lucas is the founder and editor of EA WorldView, a leading website in daily news and analysis of Iran, Turkey, Syria, and the wider Middle East, as well as US foreign policy.[10] What do you think? BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG states: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list. "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." WP:CONTEXTMATTERS states: "Context matters: The reliability of a source depends on context. ... Information provided in passing by an otherwise reliable source that is not related to the principal topics of the publication may not be reliable;..." Compare your sources above with those I have used in the article as it currently stands, directly supporting specific facts. By the criteria above, we immediately lose your points 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11. (I have struck them out above.) The rest of your sources can only support the most basic claims about the role of the site and the name of its editor, which is merely one sentence in the article. It appears none of these sources are solely, or have significant portions of their content, devoted to EA WorldView, which is what is required to establish notability. -Lopifalko (talk) 03:27, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Can I check if it is acceptable WP talk etiquette to strike out someone else's comments? Can't other readers be permitted to look at the list and make their own judgement? Wouldn't it be better to copy the list including only those you deem sufficiently robust? I agree not all of these may pass muster as "significant coverage", but I think the volume of them suggests EAW is taken seriously as a source by reliable sources. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have made a copy of your text instead of striking out the original. -Lopifalko (talk) 06:44, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Where you quote the Irish Independent as saying Professor Lucas is the founder and editor of EA WorldView, a leading website in daily news and analysis of Iran, Turkey, Syria, and the wider Middle East, as well as US foreign policy., this is written in the footer of an article written by Lucas himself, to describe the author. I do not know but I suspect that text in the footer counts for less than if it were a journalist writing within an article. Someone more knowledgeable than I might correct me on that. It feels as though the barrel is being scraped. -Lopifalko (talk) 03:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Lopifalko. GNG requires coverage of EA WorldView, not just EA worldView occasionally being quoted. Lots of journalists and writers get quoted without being in themselves notable. The editor's own mini-bio definitely does not count. Bondegezou (talk) 08:27, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As this was deleted from Further reading, am pasting it here, as it gives some account of EA Worldview's journalism:

BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:13, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Gronholt-Pedersen, Jacob (2 April 2012). Tone Houge (ed.). "Oil retreats from large jump as focus returns to Iran talks". Reuters. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  2. ^ ads Iran election draws conservatives: 'God, please accept this vote from me', CS Monitor March 2, 2012
  3. ^ Downed US drone: How Iran caught the 'beast', CS Monitor December 9, 2011
  4. ^ Why Ahmadinejad is dismissing high-level Iranian officials, CS Monitor December 24, 2010
  5. ^ Fisher, Max (27 November 2012). "Videos appear to show Syrian rebels shooting down military helicopter". The Washington Post. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  6. ^ Bezhan, Frud (18 September 2013). "This Video Purports to Show Iran Helping Assad's Forces in Syria". The Atlantic. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  7. ^ Drury, Flora (3 April 2015). "EXCLUSIVE: Syrian girl who broke millions of hearts in 'surrender' picture fled to 'safe' city – only for it to be taken by brutal Al Qaeda fanatics days later". The Daily Mail. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  8. ^ Ho, Spencer (28 May 2014). "Top Iranian officer said beheaded in Syria". The Times of Israel. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  9. ^ Spencer, Richard (11 December 2013). "Ignore the conspiracy theories: Assad was behind the Syrian chemical weapons attack". Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 6 May 2015.
  10. ^ Syrian nun finds a rocket launched at her convent embedded in the ground as Aleppo attacks continue from all sides, Mirror, 25 OCT 2016
  11. ^ e.g. Iran is not North Korea. Trump's reckless tweeting could turn dangerous CNN July 24, 2018
  12. ^ e.g. Comment: Donald Trump is Vladimir Putin's man in the White House Irish Independent July 18 2018
  13. ^ Articles at The Conversation
  14. ^ Lucas, S. (2015) [The effects of Russian intervention in the Syria crisis. Birmingham, UK: GSDRC, University of Birmingham.
  15. ^ UoB website
  16. ^ UoB website
  17. ^ Is Kavanaugh investigation legitimate?, CNN 2 October 2018
  18. ^ Trump at UN: Who does business with Iran?, By Reality Check team, BBC News, 26 September 2018
  19. ^ Is Donald Trump turning national security into a business?, AJ 19 September 2018
  20. ^ Who Was Behind The Deadly Attack In Iran?, RFE/RL September 23, 2018
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