Talk:El Niño

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Article has a bad slant[edit]

As a climatologist I have to take issue with the tone of this article comparing El Niño and La Niña as flip sides of the same coin. This is not true at all. This article needs a major re-write and as we are likely heading into at least an event, it should reflect our currently state of knowledge. I'll do as much as I can.Bwtranch (talk) 22:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Update needed[edit]

Australia had some of its greatest flooding ever in 2010-2011. According to various pages on the Australian Bureau of Meteorology website (www.bom.gov.au) , a major cause of these was the very strong La Nina of the time coupled with a very strong Indian Ocean Dipole. Surely this has to be worth including? Old_Wombat (talk) 10:22, 17 July 2011 (UTC) OK, I have done this myself now. Old_Wombat (talk) 07:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Under the heading "The "Modoki" or Central-Pacific El Niño debate", the statement "The first recorded El Niño that originated in the central Pacific and moved toward the east was in 1986." needs an update to account for more recent research that has demonstrated that the 1982-1983 event was forced from the west as well, as demonstrated by Roundy, Paul E., George N. Kiladis, 2007: Analysis of a Reconstructed Oceanic Kelvin Wave Dynamic Height Dataset for the Period 1974–2005. J. Climate, 20, 4341–4355. This work demonstrated that the roughly 20 cm rise in sea level height at Christmas Island near 157W July 1982 was associated with an oceanic Kelvin wave that arrived in the region from the west, triggered in association with a Madden Julian oscillation event over the western Pacific Ocean June 1982. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul.e.roundy (talkcontribs) 16:45, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

potential resource[edit]

Fom Talk:War#potential resource SciAm and Science News ... From Talk:Politics of global warming#SciAm resource and Talk:Effects of climate change on humans#El Niño-Southern Oscillation and Civil disorder resource ...

Related to Talk:Intertropical Convergence Zone#What it rong with the external link *ITCZ in March 2011 Scientific American ?

99.109.124.130 (talk) 02:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Clarification requested[edit]

Currently paragraph 2 of the lede begins

ENSO causes extreme weather (such as floods and droughts) in many regions of the world.

But ENSO is defined as a climate pattern, not a specific extreme portion of the pattern. Shouldn't it say something like the following?:

The extremes of this climate pattern's oscillations cause extreme weather (such as floods and droughts) in many regions of the world.

Duoduoduo (talk) 18:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Rename?[edit]

I can't think of any reason for this to be hyphenated. "Niño-Southern" is not a compound. This article should probably move to El Niño Southern Oscillation. I think someone meant something like "El Niño, Southern Oscillation" or "El Niño – Southern Oscillation" or "Southern Oscillation of El Niño", but none of that contortion is really necessary. And why is "Southern Oscillation" capitalized? Are meteorological oscillations always treated as proper nouns? If not, then this article should really be at El Niño southern oscillation. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō Contribs. 20:47, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

El Niño is the common name of the Southern Oscillation, and El Niño-Southern Oscillation (with the hyphen, dash, or some other short horizontal line) is a term commonly used in the scientific literature (e.g. [1]). "Southern Oscillation of El Niño" would be incorrect. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 20:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Why is there such a difference in naming between La Niña and El Niño-Southern Oscillation? --Lee (talk) 05:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I just came here to see if there was any explanation for this cryptic name, too, as the hyphen makes no sense at all. Sources include phrases like "El Niño‐Southern Oscillation" (with hyphen), "the El Nino/Southern Oscillation (ENSO)", "El Nino: Southern oscillation and climatic variability", "El Niño southern oscillation phenomena", "El Niño–Southern Oscillation" (with en dash), "El Niño/Southern Oscillation", "El niño and the southern oscillation". These are often adjective phrases modifying event, cycle, phenomenon, etc., but also often are found alone as noun phrases. It's clear the punctuation means "and", or "also known as", and connects the two parallel terms "el niño" and "southern oscillation". So the hyphen needs to be an en dash, per MOS:DASH, to conform to our styling guidelines. All case variations are commonly found, but capitalized "El Niño" has been dominating in recent years [2]; similarly on Southern Oscillation. So, I'd say either just change the hyphen to en dash, or rename the article El Niño, which is clearly what it's most commonly called. Dicklyon (talk) 05:13, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I switched it to the en dash for now. Bigger changes will need more support. Dicklyon (talk) 00:51, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Bias[edit]

The section on a possible link to Global Warming seems biased to me. The existence of Global Warming IS in dispute and yet the article discusses a possible link between El Nino and Global Warming as if Global Warming definitely exists for a fact. It does not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.248.241 (talkcontribs)


Disputed by who? By oil companies and people with a vested interest yes. By climatologists and people who actually study and research climate its essentially unanimously accepted — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eggilicious (talkcontribs) 13:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

hardly. when you adjust climate change predictions for el nino variance, it makes them even better than the already significant predictions. also, some weird person thinks the "original research" tag should be used for non-review primary literature, when it's for asserting facts without citation. most technical references are not to review articles (which are generally not considered primary literature). this is a fairly amazing misunderstanding. i'm presuming it was ok to remove the complaint until this person can find sufficient primary literature to warrant a requirement for adjudicating review articles, and then work out what the correct tag is to use for complaining about that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.57.184 (talk) 10:31, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I removed the statement on coral bleaching, since it is very off topic, and the reference given did not conform to the statement that was made here. Cormagh (talk) 17:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

"El Niño is Spanish for "the little boy" and refers to the Christ child,"[edit]

Uhh, it's a little more subtle than that, you need to pay attention to the UPPER/lower case letters.

"El niño" (lower case initial 'n') is indeed Spanish for "The little boy", but it means no more than that; ie, a generic little boy.

"El Niño" (upper case initial 'N') would in English be more like "THE little boy", and that then specifically refers to the infant Jesus, for the reason stated.

58.166.120.215 (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

" El niño is Spanish for "the niño" " is a reference to the Chris Farley sketch, and is probably someone's idea of a joke. 12.22.204.1 (talk) 22:08, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2013[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. -- tariqabjotu 12:51, 5 July 2013 (UTC)



El Niño–Southern OscillationEl Niño – [1] Per WP:TITLE, article titles should be "no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects", and the current name is needlessly long, convoluted, and not concise (most readers will look for "El Niño", not for the more complex form of "El Niño–Southern Oscillation" as it stands now); [2] per WP:UCN, "Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources) as such names will be the most recognizable and the most natural", and a web search shows that "El Niño" is used by Reliable English language sources from 3x to 10x more often (3,190,000 times to be exact) than the more complex forms of "Southern Oscillation" (1,070,000 times), "El Niño Southern Oscillation" (332,000 times), and "El Niño–Southern Oscillation" (332,000 times). Specific searches at Google Scholar ([3] vs. [4]), Google Books ([5] vs. [6]), and Google News ([7] vs. [8]) yield similar ratios; [3] Per WP:CRITERIA, titles should be "consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles", and this article's title is not: the first other article that comes to mind is named in a very simple and natural fashion ("La Niña"), and the El Niño article should be named similarly. Mercy11 (talk) 15:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

  • Easy support per WP:TITLE. Well nominated. Red Slash 10:21, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Support Titles should always be the most obvious, simple, best-known term unless there is a very good reason why not. Tannin (talk) 14:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Support per nomination. mgeo talk 10:46, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Commonly known just as El Nino. Apteva (talk) 22:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support – Surprised it's not already named as such. --Article editor (talk) 08:36, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Broken links[edit]

All of the links in footnote 12 are broken, including those that utilize the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.Duaneediger (talk) 05:36, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Problems created by name change and the solution[edit]

The lead is crap, and the article should be under ENSO William M. Connolley (talk) 07:38, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it should be called ENSO, EL Nino is just confusing since the topic also covers La Nina - both part of ENSO. Please go ahead WMC. prokaryotes (talk) 08:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
This was discussed last year in the talk page, with the discussion lying just above. I agree with William's assessment -- this article was about ENSO as a whole when I edited it a few years ago, but it became very El Niño heavy. El Niño is the most common name related to ENSO as well -- both of the above prompted the move. Wikipedia doesn't care who or what is right, just what's more popular. Information on La Nina was minimized out of necessity since it is no longer the topic of this article, with the removed content preserved in the La Nina article. The ENSO article has reappeared, which summarizes the content of the El Nino, La Nina, Gilbert Walker, Walker circulation, Southern Oscillation, and MJO articles. I think we might be better off, the way this is turning out. Thegreatdr (talk) 13:18, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

What a frikkin' mess! A combination of improper copy-paste move with undiscussed topic split. Someone who knows how should try to sort this out. Dicklyon (talk) 21:02, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

2016[edit]

Is there an article about the 2015 El Nino? 203.97.184.160 (talk) 21:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Not yet - but I have been thinking that one should be started, under the title 2014-16 El Niño event.Jason Rees (talk) 21:34, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
That would be good. Specific impacts in SE Asia, coral bleaching, weather events, the unusual Pacific and Indian ocean tropical storm season and other things all deserve note but don't fit within this article. 203.97.184.160 (talk) 02:56, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Obviously people are coming here looking for information about the current El Niño so Wikipedia should really have that page soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.147.214 (talk) 09:27, 23 November 2015 (UTC) You should probably create an article about the current El Nino. It has been happening for months, and it's almost 2016

@Jason Rees: I got 2 things here: 1) Why name it 2014-16 El Nino? Isn't it suppose to be 2015-16? It says [9] that the red (which means the start of the El nino episode/season) started during the FMA months of 2015. 2) In this article, I believe it's more better to rename the article to 1997-98, instead of 1997-1998, which looks weird to me. Typhoon2013 (talk) 23:00, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
@Typhoon2013: I would name it 2014-16 because certain meteorological agencies such as the JMA, classified it as an El Nino event during 2014. Its also worth noting that the El Nino conditions emerged last year.Jason Rees (talk) 23:30, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Could 2015–2016 El Niño event be what you were looking for? It's very summary however. 76.10.128.192 (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

La Niña?[edit]

You've let the global warming folks get out-of-hand by separating this from La Niña, giving the impression the one doesn't alternate with the other, and now that in the past few years, swings have become more frequent, as well as, that they always have the same effects when they don't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.26.8 (talk) 06:00, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Graph request[edit]

Using this public-domain data: http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/ensostuff/ensoyears.shtml we could make an awesome graph like the one on: https://wunderground.atavist.com/el-nino-forecast -- Beland (talk) 22:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh, actually we already have File:Soi.svg. -- Beland (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Er the SOI and El Nino are two different things - so we do not have a chart.Jason Rees (talk) 23:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Ah, to clarify, El Niño–Southern Oscillation says "The Southern Oscillation is the atmospheric component of El Niño." -- Beland (talk) 23:41, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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I checked it; the bot did OK, but didn't fix the whole problem caused by the last human, so I reverted to before that. He can try again. Dicklyon (talk) 02:56, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Relationship to extreme weather results[edit]

I heard a report that a strong El Nino doesn't produce more extreme weather events, but rather more predictable extreme weather events. It would be interesting to hear if there's any scientific consensus on this question at the moment, and how this study fits in. -- Beland (talk) 23:46, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Potential Climate Change References[edit]

[1][2][3]

  1. ^ Johnson, Nathaniel C. (19 January 2014). "Atmospheric Science: A boost in big El Niño". Nature Climate Change. 4: 90–91. Bibcode:2014NatCC...4...90J. doi:10.1038/nclimate2108. Retrieved 28 July 2015. (subscription required (help)). 
  2. ^ Cai, Wenju; Borlace, Simon; Lengaigne, Matthieu; van Rensch, Peter; Collins, Mat; Vecchi, Gabriel; Timmermann, Axel; Santoso, Agus; McPhaden, Michael J.; Wu, Lixin; England, Matthew H.; Wang, Guojian; Guilyardi, Eric; Jin, Fei-Fei (19 January 2014). "Increasing frequency of extreme El Niño events due to greenhouse warming". Nature Climate Change. pp. 111–116. doi:10.1038/nclimate2100. Retrieved 28 July 2015. (subscription required (help)). 
  3. ^ Trenberth, Kevin E.; Hoar, Timothy J. (January 1996). "The 1990–1995 El Niño–Southern Oscillation event: Longest on record". Geophysical Research Letters. 23 (1): 57–60. Bibcode:1996GeoRL..23...57T. doi:10.1029/95GL03602.