Talk:Emo

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Former good article nominee Emo was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
October 27, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
December 13, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee
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Bollocks[edit]

"Emo began off as a style of post-hardcore[16] and emerged from the hardcore punk scene of early-1980s Washington, D.C., both as a reaction to the increased violence within the scene and as an extension of the personal politics espoused by Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat, who had turned the focus of the music from the community back towards the individual."

What does this even mean? -Alandada (talk) 20:48, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

methinks he means that it aint true about that sentence but u know u could have just deleted it whoever posted tahtt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.125.24.175 (talk) 10:50, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

No mention of...[edit]

This may be ridiculous and I can't believe I took the effort to do this. But I am incredulous. Why is there no mention of BRIGHT EYES or AT THE DRIVE IN!? AHH. Maybe I'm off-base but both those bands I feel were pivotal/hugely influential offshoots of early emo. That Omaha scene deserves some mention (Cursive too!) If you want a source just listen to the album Fevers and Mirrors a few times (also, it's called fevers and mirrors..) Also sorry for treating this as a forum I just need answers.

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Emo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:34, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Emo pop. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:12, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

Ad I stated in my revert you need to discuss before you re-rewrite the lead. Please start laying out high quality third party sources that show that the current version of the lead is wrong. This means no interviews, no small zines, no blogs, and no genres in the sidebar of allmusic. Trying to stitch things together from a number of album reviews moves into synthesis. I have a copy of Nothing Feels Good and a copy of Our Band Could Be Your Life in case they need to be checked. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 04:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I included sources that describe emo as a genre of pop punk, sources that describe emo as a genre of hardcore punk and sources that describe emo as a genre of indie rock. I added more information about emo's mainstream popularity. I added more pictures. I included references. I added a characteristics section. I added more information. Already I am sticking to sources without using original research and I found sources that describe emo as a pop punk style, sources that describe emo as a hardcore punk style and sources that describe emo as an indie rock style. This can help improve the lead so that the lead states that emo is a genre of hardcore punk, post-hardcore, indie rock and pop punk. You reverted these edits. I'm pretty sure that other editors who reverted my edits, etc. would notice that I added sources for emo being a pop punk/indie rock/hardcore punk genre and they would notice that I'm finally sticking to sources without original research and they'd realize that I'm putting a neutral point of view of the definition of emo. I'm pretty sure that the reason why they are NOT reverting my edits anymore is because they noticed that I added sources for emo being a pop punk style, a hardcore punk style and an indie rock style. There's a lot of arguments over what emo is; some emo people think that bands such as Sunny Day Real Estate and Mineral are NOT emo and are just alternative rock/indie rock and they think that emo died in the 1990s after the days of Rites of Spring and Embrace; some people don't consider emo pop punk to be actual emo. This article does NOT consider bands such as Rites of Spring emo. Read this quote: "Some people like to say that real emo is "emotional hardcore," splintered off in the '80s by bands like Rites of Spring. To me, that's ridiculous: So-called first wave emo (at the time called emocore) is just hardcore with sappy lyrics. Today's emo kids do not, I assure you, give a fuck about Guy Picciotto."
Wikipedia's emo article has sources that say that emo originally was a hardcore punk/post-hardcore genre, but changed into an indie rock/pop punk genre. Also, when you reverted my edit, you reverted some grammar error fixings/section heading fixings/corrections of things that contradict other things in the article/etc. I'm pretty sure that if other editors saw my new edit, they would like it and agree that it shows a neutral point of view, has sources, and has NO original research. EuropeanSwedenAmerican2222 (talk) 03:14, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
You never added any sources saying that emo was a style of X. I looked. They just describe emo in relation to those genres. I found a book source that explicitly says "emo is a style of indie rock".You never accomplished anything close to that. You managed to add a few not-so-great sources that fail to mention anything about post-hardcore or "a subgenre of rock music".--Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:11, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I agree with paint here. Further, the new Characteristics section over relies on direct quotes from AllMusic at the expense of better sources. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 13:25, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
This article does NOT consider bands such as Rites of Spring emo. That is considered a WP:FRINGE viewpoint. The majority of the literature agrees that Rites of Spring is emo and was the first emo band. (Greenwald 2003; Anderson 2001; Azerad 2001) --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 13:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I was NOT using that as a source for the article. I was just pointing out how NOT everyone views Rites of Spring as emo, just like how NOT everyone views emo pop punk music as emo and NOT everyone views Sunny Day Real Estate as emo. I was pointing out how controversial the term "emo" is and how the neutral point of view of emo would view Rites of Spring as emo, would view Sunny Day Real Estate as emo, AND would view emo pop punk as emo. EuropeanSwedenAmerican2222 (talk) 18:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
You seem to have fallen into the pit that lots of novice wikipedians have about NPOV. NPOV does not mean that every opinion gets a seat at the table. NPOV means that we state the predominant and mainstream point-of-view with minority viewpoints given their weight depending on the weight of the sources. (WP:DUE) --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 19:25, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Taking a look at the highest quality online sources I can find, this is how the genre is described:

  • Pitchfork : "Drive-Thru played a distinct role in linking pop-punk and emo together in the minds of casual music fans, despite them being, in many ways, drastically different. Although none of these traits were mutually exclusive back then (and the definition of each genre still varies depending on who you ask), generally speaking, pop-punk thrived on bratty humor, where emo aimed for more of a literary sensitivity."
  • NPR : "it sounds like emo — the broadly defined, male-dominated, compositionally complicated, often pained offshoot of American punk rock — is back"
  • Pitchfork : "The differences between "indie rock" bands and "emo" bands are often negligible. But both scenes are built on relationships, and each tribe has its own labels, publicists and publications.:
  • Rolling Stone : "It's been more than 30 years since punk rock's confessional, diaristic, heart-on-sleeve offshoot "emo" came screaming from Washington, D.C., and around a decade since its commercial peak."

(will be ading more this evening) --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 20:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Pet Sounds[edit]

Okay, I love Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson, don't get me wrong. But to consider that album a precursor to emo is a little much. Yes, there are common themes in Pet Sounds shared by many great emo albums and bands, but emo came from DC Hardcore and splintered off from there.

I think the bit about Pet Sounds being a precursor to emo should be removed. Anyone else agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimtimidation (talkcontribs) 14:17, 11 July 2016 (UTC)