Talk:Faith school

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Issues section[edit]

If this section is going to be in the article then there really ought to be a section balancing this listing positive benefits of faith schools, such as their above average academic performance and questions relating to the ethos. At present there is an enormous section detailing problems with faith schools but none of the advantages, which really smacks of bias in the article. Correctus2kX (talk) 23:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Figures?[edit]

The figures given in the article for the number of Faith Schools seems not to fit with the official figures on the Gov website. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/maintained-faith-schools for 2010. I don't have time to check but it seems quite a wide variance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:4B:6F39:C367:5490:C249:648A:36F0 (talk) 18:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Supporters?[edit]

So who thinks faith schools are a good idea? It's not obvious from this article, which makes it appear a little skewed in one direction. 132.185.240.121 (talk)

Agreed. There needs to be an explanation of the history and rationale of faith schools as well as evidence for their success compared to secular state schools. Hood23 (talk) 16:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Derogatory term[edit]

Couldn't the term be considered derogatory by many of the private communities who run these schools ? For instance, Catholic and Anglican schools do teach all required subjects and do not merely engage in indoctrination as some of its critics have alleged. Individuals who run the schools will typically identify with the particular community instead of the associated faith and its dogmas. While it is true that some Islamic and Jewish schools are controlled by fundamentalist members of those respective religions, these fundamentalist schools are a rather insignificant minority and cannot really be put on the same level as standard community schools. ADM (talk) 06:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the term faith school is controversial. There is a need for a term broader than church school, and this is the one that is actually used by government, the media and faith groups themselves. Additionally the mainstream churches have good political reasons not to emphasise the differences between the schools of different faiths. Duncan Keith (talk) 20:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes faith school is an agreed educational term, although I agree that the general public's understanding of it's definition may not include state-funded CofE or Catholic schools. This question is important when you look at recent polls which suggest that 65% of the public would like to see an end to all faith schools and this statistic is being used to lobby the Government to achieve this. Do the public really understand the definition? The line has never been this clearly drawn in British education - The education system in the UK has it's roots in 19th century church schools - the 20th century represented a fairly uncontroversial partnership between church and state, where the "faith" label was largely unnoticed. Only in the past 20 years has this new antagonism towards church schools really emerged. Perhaps it is the emergence of the "new faith schools" eg faith sponsored academies, has stirred up the secularists. To my mind it's by using the term "faith schools" that the secularists are causing the division that they say they are trying to prevent. This new demarcation is to me is akin to the rebranding of state enterprise before it is sold off a la British Telecom. But that's just my rant - the term "faith schools" is still the convention and the appropriate title for this article! Chris Shore (talk) 11:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Criticism[edit]

I put a line from the lead in a separate section because it would fit better there. I also added a who template and a POV tag, because there are some problems with the sources. The source is a controversial book by Richard Lynn, IQ and the Wealth of Nations. Either there should be a note that this is a controversial work or it should be removed in favour of better sourced criticism.
Which brings me to another part, that is the need to improve this section. It might be a good idea to refer to articles like children and religion, criticism of religion and similar articles. Several of the New Atheists have voiced criticism of faith-based schools, which may well be worth including. Does anybody have some suggestions (or wants to contest my edit)? Darth Viller (talk) 11:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins objects to faith-based education as he regards it as indoctrinating "tiny children in the religion of their parents, and to slap religious labels on them". He in particular criticised Emmanuel College for allegedly teaching Young Earth Creationism. (Source: Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, p. 333-339)
Something like that seems more factual to me. Any comments, objections, recommendations? Darth Viller (talk) 12:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Lee McLoughlin is obviously (like me) opposed to Faith Schools, but citing web pages which are more generally anti-religion does not amount to criticism (or even any facts) about the schools themselves. I shall remove the POV one more time, then if he insists I shall abandon this web page. I have previously suggested an article "religious schools" because "faith school" is recently invented British term which is not synonymous with US parochial schools or educational practice in other countries. Thus comparing measures about various foreign countries and their religions does not have any direct implications for these schools.Chemical Engineer (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree that in the current format the POV tag is unnecessary. There is something to say for such an article, too. Also, please note that I placed the tag there because I didn't want to delete his criticism; therefore I moved it to a separate section and tagged it for having controversial sources. Darth Viller (talk) 13:55, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Any criticism should be correctly cited and directly related to the subject, as in your Dawkins example, not unsupported assertions or cited unspecific anti-religion examples. There has also been a lot of praise for faith schools from politicians and others, so an encyclopedia should report both or neither side.Chemical Engineer (talk) 15:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The article states that there were 12 Muslim schools in 2011. In fact, there were over 150 (and are 156 today). This figure is from a lengthy report on Muslim schools which I wrote before 2011 ('Music, Chess and Other Sins', Denis MacEoin). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denis MacEoin (talkcontribs) 00:36, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Structure[edit]

I have tried to set up a structure for a proper neutral encyclopedic article.Chemical Engineer (talk) 19:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Northern Ireland[edit]

This section needs some material.Autarch (talk) 13:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Of course it does. I just put the heading in because it needs it. It is a particularly important section because of the issues between the Catholic and Protestant communities and their separate schooling. I am not particularly knowledgeable in this area, so will leave it to someone who is. You are welcome to make a start.Chemical Engineer (talk) 17:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Christian worship?[edit]

I was not aware that all state schools in England had to carry out Christian worship. Is this correct, or am I reading it wrong? My school never had any preayers in assembly etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DPTM (talkcontribs) 14:16, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Inaccurate definition[edit]

Surely faith schools exist in places other than the United Kingdom? We have them here in Canada. Torontonian1 (talk) 15:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Of course they do. We have them in Australia too. Jimp 01:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)