Talk:Ford Model A engine

Ford Model A engine - Notability

The Ford Model A engine, like the Ford Model T engine before it, and the Ford V8 after it, meets the requirements for WP:Notability. Like them, it was one of the world's most widely produced, purchased and used engines of its era.

And, like them, it dominated several market sectors, including: personal automobiles, commercial vehicles, auto racing, small speedboats and commercial fishing boats, low-end tractors and farm machinery, light industrial applications and even homebuilt aircraft -- popular in those applications for more than the few years it was in production, and in some cases, remaining popular for decades. (See the article's "Operational history and adaptations" section)

Moreover, the Ford Model A engine was a key transitional bridge between the flathead inline-4 Model T engine, and the flathead Ford V8 -- both trendsetters of their respective eras. The Model A engine gave sufficient contiunity and development of the flathead concept to keep it -- and Ford -- viable and competitive in a rapidly changing technological environment, in which most players were quickly being winnowed out.

For all these reasons, and for its continuing wide popularity and application, the Ford Model A engine fully meets the requirements for WP:Notability.

~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 14:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Prior deletion of this title - not relevant to this new article

A check for creation of the article title Ford Model A engine turns up this notation:

04:14, 25 February 2007 Riana talk contribs deleted page Ford Model A engine :([[WP:CSDA1] content was: '{db-empty}its a model') (thank)

I'm not clear what she was getting at, but perhaps someone had started the article, by creating the title, and then never filled anything in. So maybe THIS version is acceptable, because it is a fairly substantial and complete article.

Moreover, a check of Riana's User talk page shows this flag:

This user may have left Wikipedia. Riana has not edited Wikipedia since January 28, 2015

Consequently, I don't expect it's practical to try and get her to undo her deletion of the prior article title. I'll just need to forge ahead with it on my own -- unless some appropriate editor wants to review and approve the article. Comments or advice?

~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 14:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Improvements on my wish list

While this lacks some of the types of detail that other engine pages for earlier engines (e.g.: Ford Model T engine) have, this is partly due to the fact that copyright law still covers some of the works on the more recent Ford Model A engine. Thus, I cannot attach cutaways and drawings from the manufacturer, or other contemporaries of the day.

On the other hand, hopefully, this article does a much more thorough job than most others of covering the full scope of applications and global impact of the engine, as well as a thorough review of its peculiarities and of its essential attachments (Drivetrain, equipment and accessories), and an effort at summarizing its complex controls. Those topics needing greater information will, in most cases, already have that a lead to that in the reference citations and external links to sources.

I would encourage other editors to "fill in the blanks." Many of the cited sources have much additional information, often from very expert sources -- such as the nation's major Model A type clubs.

I would also greatly appreciate gentle, but clear, guidance on the use of photos: Have I put enough information in the caption, or am I obliged to do more? Having difficulty making sense out of the WP:Images guidance and related posts. If I did it OK, no problem. If I've made a serious error, please advise ASAP. By the way, all the photos I've put in this article have come from pre-existing mages already on Wikipedia -- though some have different rights statements (none of which are very clear to me).

Thank you for reviewing.

~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Question for the author

Zxtxtxz, how similar is this engine to the Model T engine (and, by extension, the 1932 Model B engine)? If the A engine has the same basic design as the T engine with a larger displacement, might it be better to cover both in a single article like Wikipedia does with nearly all other car engines? --Sable232 (talk) 15:08, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Sable232:, re: Model A engine vs. Model T engine:

I understand your concern, but the Model A engine's resemblance to the Model T engine is about like comparing a Ford Model A to a Ford Model T. Basic shapes and configurations are vaguely similar, but the two are simply too different -- and too far separated in time, history, specific applications, and global influence and impact -- to bunch together in one article.

While the Model T & Model A engines have a superficially similar case and configuration, there are physical measurement differences in just about every definable metric, and major functional/operational differences throughout. There are no interchangeable parts.

The Model A engine has double Model T's power, and literally every system of the engine is sharply and fundamentally different from the Model T: Fuel feed and carburetion, ignition, starting, electrical, controls, lubrication, engine cooling, drivetrain, and so on. In comparison to the Model T engine, the Model A engine was a quantum leap in functionality, utility, and quality.

The Model A engine was applied rather differently than the Model T, specifically in very different cars, trucks, military vehicles, tractors, farm implements, and boats. It even powered hundreds of two-seat airplanes (the Model T engine barely lifted a handful of single-seaters).

The Model A engine was so distinct and desired a product that it was widely promoted and sold as a product unto itself -- as the "Model A Industrial Engine" (as noted in the article).

And, unlike the Model T engine, the Model A engine remains in use by the hundreds of thousands (in the article, I conservatively only claim "tens of thousands," but my cited references say "hundreds of thousands,"). There is almost certainly nothing comparable in scale among early antique engines, today. And it is even the subject of a revival development (as explained in the article).

As a realistic, practical matter, these are simply different engines.

Respectfully, ~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 05:39, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Sable232:, re: Model A engine vs. Model B engine:

This is a subtler distinction than from between Model A and Model T engines. Yet there are many very substantive differences between the Model A and Model B engines. Unlike the Model A engine, the Model B engine had:

• 25% higher power (50hp)
• Higher compression
• Counterbalanced crankshaft
• Positive pressure lubrication

(main bearings; cam bearings)

• Mechanical fuel pump
• Different, much larger, far more sophisticated and refined carburetion.
• Slightly different water pump and radiator
• Lightweight flywheel
• Different engine casting durability
• Automatic spark advance (centrifugal-weight distributor)

...and many more.

The Ford Model B engine was the power for a popular type of hot rod, the "Deuce Coupe."

It powered a larger, very different airplane: The Funk Model B.

Because these engines were major elements of the early development of the automobile -- and each made major changes on a scale arguably far more fundamental than most variations between modern engines -- I lean towards each being the subject of a separate article.

Respectfully, ~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 07:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)