Talk:François de Grossouvre

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Untitled

I have deleted the "With Jacques Foccart, another important French "shady" figure, he helped create the Department of Protection-Security (DPS), the far-right Front National militia, after the dissolution in the early 1980s of the Gaullist Service d'Action Civique (SAC)." part since it is not in the much discussed French version. Moreover, such kind of information should be given with due reference of the source.

Same for "In any case, Grossouvre would have asked Constantin Melnik, leader of the French secret services during the Algerian War of Independence (1954-62), to return to active status. Melnik was living in comfortable exile in the US, where he maintained links with the Rand Corporation. Constantin Melnik is alleged to have been involved in the 1952 creation of the Ordre Souverain du Temple Solaire, an ancestor of the Order of the Solar Temple (OST), in which the SDECE (French former military intelligence agency) had an interest."

Obviously, it is not irrelevant to mention these things but I think that it needs due justification considering the obvious implications of such allegations. This is the reason why I leave here a copy of the deleted information, in case anybody has proper source to cite. --Anvers2 10:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that Tazmaniacs has a few ideas about the subject and they deserve to be discussed BUT one should give sources or references to support allegations. I know no article/book/anything that connects F. de Grossouvre with the order of the solar temple.

Regarding the DPS, it is sure that there were links between F de Grossouvre and Foccart but of what kind? And again, do you have any source to support the involvement of F. de Grossouvre in the DPS creation?

--Anvers2 23:57, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What the? 2 bullets?

What is the official explanation for the 2 bullets in the head? Thats obviously odd for a suicide, unless it was an automatic weapon perhaps. Its odd enough to leave any reader wondering. There has to be some published info, speculation, or official explanation for it. 72.129.1.185 19:57, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:François de Grossouvre/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

As I have mentionned in the discussion page, this article is full of baseless allegations. I had deleted some parts that have been restored without any reference or source quoted. I would say that the french version of it, which has been widely discussed and has reached a good quality level should be used as a reference to build this page.

Left like that, this page is of no use for anybody.

--Anvers2 23:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 23:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 15:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Largely based on posts from the Voltaire-Network

This article is full of claims from Thierry Meyssan's Voltaire Network. Meyssan was the author of 9/11: The Big Lie, and both he and his web-page are about as far from a reliable sources as it is possible to imagine. I will go through the article as time permits and see how much I can salvage. Rgr09 (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting multiple gunshot claim

The claim that Grossouvre was shot twice is not sourced. This baseless claim has been up for almost ten years, when it should have been questioned and removed within days. In addition, the section on his death is filled with miscellaneous information, such as Grossouvre's relationship with Rwanda, Roger-Patrice Pelat, and so on. Absent some explanation of how any of this is relevant, I've deleted it as well. If it's put back, make sure you explain why. Rgr09 (talk) 23:40, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Information about Grossouvre's death and Rwandan genocide

[Restored post that had been added in place of all other text on this page]

Hey there, I don't edit Wikipedia regularly, and, so, am unsure as to how to go about this. I'm just going to copy some of what I wrote for the French page, which ought to be a basis for this, in my opinion.

I should like to put forth an argument in favor of including information about the connection between the date of François de Grossouvre's death and the beginning of the Rwandan Genocide. There is a Microsoft Word document online that reads:

"Yet more hearsay evidence comes from Jean Kambanda in his fascinating confession to the ICTR. Kambanda, the prime minister in the interim government, says that President Sese Seko Mobutu of neighbouring Zaire, (now DRC) had warned Habyarimana not to go to Dar-es-Salaam on April 6. Mobuto said this warning had come from a very senior official in the Elysée Palace in Paris. There was a link between this warning, said Mobutu, and the subsequent suicide in the Elysée of a senior high-ranking official working for President François Mitterrand, an official who had killed himself on April 7 after learning about the downing of the Falcon. This was François de Grossouvre, a presidential advisor on African affairs."

It has the title, "Expert refutes Bruguière claims that RPF shot down Rwandan President’s aircraft in 1994" and is alleged to have been written by Linda Melvern, author of Conspiracy to Murder: The Rwandan Genocide. The article is not available on the website of The New Times. What is written in her book reads:

"A different version of events was given to ICTR investigators when they had interviewed Jean Kambanda, the prime minister in the interim government. Kambanda had said that while he was in exile he learned that Sese Soku Mobutu of neighboring Zaire had warned President Habyarimana not to go to Dar-Es-Salaam on April 6, but Habyarimana said had said he had no choice. Mobutu had said that the warning had come from a very senior official in The Élysée Palace in Paris. There was a link between this warning, said Mobutu, and the subsequent suicide in Élysée of a senior high-ranking official working for President François Mitterrand, a man who killed himself on 7 April after learning about the downing Falcon.

This man was François de Grossouvre, a presidential advisor on African affairs. Too many threads link this man to Rwanda not to raise serious questions about the policies that were formulated in these presidential offices."

I don't know how to post the link, but you can find it here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=xIwz20bNknsC&pg=PA263&lpg=PA263&dq=Fran%C3%A7ois+de+%22Grossouvre%22+mobutu+sese+seko&source=bl&ots=etLkVKJwwt&sig=ACfU3U3TdI_uxyK4hifUNT1myR_t2WONDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-4tfGroX0AhUmgnIEHV56B-oQ6AF6BAgTEAM#v=onepage&q=Fran%C3%A7ois%20de%20%22Grossouvre%22%20mobutu%20sese%20seko&f=false

The book is published by Verso and Melvern was a consultant to the Military One prosecution team at the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda.

--2601:547:C400:223:2156:BFB7:1C57:9A2E (talk) 04:37, 7 November 2021 (UTC)daydreamdays[reply]