Talk:Freedom Plaza

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Lost Symbol

There appears to be disagreement on whether to include information in this article about the coverage of Freedom Plaza in the 2009 bestseller The Lost Symbol. My own opinion is that it's interesting information, and since the article here is a stub anyway, it helps to expand the existing information. What do others think? --El on ka 18:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The matter here is proper placement, ultimately, now that a citation has been provided. The reference in the book, based on [1], appears to be amazingly minor, though the fact that such a reference exists has been verified by a third-party source. However, the question becomes, what relevance does it have in regards to the real-life Freedom Plaza? I say very little, unless the reference also creates a stir in real life. For instance, in the Charlottesville Fashion Square article, a book called The Teeth of the Tiger referenced the mall, and created a real-life stir for various reasons, mainly regarding the accurate description of the facilities involved, and coverage included interviews with the real-life owners of the property. Thus why that's included - it involved the real-life mall in real life. If it were a simple reference to it in a work of fiction, it would be gone, only really relevant to the fictional work, and therefore only mentioned (if even there) in the article about the book itself. So that's what we're dealing with - this is an article about the real life Freedom Plaza, distinct from the Freedom Plaza that exists in the fictional universe of The Lost Symbol. Unless there is something that comes about regarding the real-life plaza as a result of the novel, it shouldn't be here.

Additionally, the one-sentence reference, even cited, strongly smells of trivia, which kind of starts brushing up against WP:INDISCRIMINATE in a bad way, and your justification of "it's interesting" is a really weak argument, and one of many specifically cited in Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions (specifically, WP:ILIKEIT). SchuminWeb (Talk) 19:06, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:IDONTLIKEIT is similarly weak. In any case, so far we have two editors who think the information should be included, and one, the article creator, who doesn't. So rather than going for a polarized "keep it or delete it" situation, and throwing WP shortcuts at each other, how about trying to find a compromise? --El on ka 19:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...and didn't address my concern. SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:58, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My instinct is that this smacks of WP:Trivia. There are countless fictional works that have scenes occur in real locations. I don't think we need to add a list of all of them to every wiki page for a real location. That being said I'm always open to compromise, however off-hand I can't see how this rather trivial piece of information will ever become non-trivial. --Bachrach44 (talk) 13:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't see how it will ever become non-trivial when used in the article about the real plaza, especially given the cited sources, which lend to that this was an extremely minor reference in the book in the first place. Maybe in the article in the work of fiction, but not here. SchuminWeb (Talk) 15:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am in agreement that extensive lists of trivia can be inappropriate. However, one person's trivia, is another's useful information, so the key is to find a balance. As an example of how these popular culture references can be useful, I was actually just having a discussion the other day about the concept of liquid breathing, and wondering how it was being presented in popular culture. The list of fictional works in the Wikipedia article was extremely useful for our discussion. For this article, Freedom Plaza, I would also like to see information on how the Plaza is being presented or used in popular culture. It gives information on how well-known that the Plaza is, and alerts readers to related works that they may find interesting. If the Plaza is being referenced in other fictional works, I see no problem in listing a few of the more prominent ones here, be they novels, or films which have scenes at the Plaza. See also WP:IPC.

As another example of notability, in the case of Brown's novel, the fact that Freedom Plaza is one of the settings in the book is clearly being covered by third-party sources. The novel's major success (2 million copies sold within the first week) has put it into the hands of millions of readers in a very short timeframe. Brown's previous novel, The Da Vinci Code, sold over 80 million copies and caused massive increases in tourism to all of the sites in the book. Tourism to the sites in the current book (including Freedom Plaza) is expected to increase as well. --El on ka 15:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If a rise in tourism due to the novel becomes the case here, then that relates to the real-life plaza, and if sourcable, is worth inclusion. If and only if, however. SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the rise of tourism will also be notable, as well as the discussion of Freedom Plaza which is occurring in multiple books about The Lost Symbol. As those books become available, those sources can be added as well. But even without them, the link to the novel is still notable enough for inclusion. Perhaps we can find a compromise that involves re-wording the section or its header, or working it into another part of the text? --El on ka 16:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You want to work it into the text, rather than as a trivia section? Go for it. SchuminWeb (Talk) 17:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I think it ties in nicely with the information about the Metro lines, but feel free to tweak! --El on ka 17:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well played! SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Federal Triangle?

@Bohemian Baltimore: I believe this plaza might be just outside the boundaries of Federal Triangle (at least according to Google Maps, which I admit is not 100% accurate re: neighborhood boundaries). Are you sure the category for Federal Triangle applies? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:36, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@APK: Since you removed this entry from Template:Federal Triangle, shall we remove Category:Federal Triangle from this entry, too? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:53, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]