Talk:Gay Shame

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Clarity[edit]

It would be good if the article were more clear that this movement was not started by 'homophobes'. Vranak

Already seems pretty clear on that, after reading it. I suppose it's possible to be simutaneously gay and homophobic, but that's not the impression I got about the movement from the way the article's written.

I think both are true if you count internalized homophobia. Benjiboi 08:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified[edit]

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Fringe[edit]

The article covers a counter-culture group/philosophy that seems extremely likely to provoke very divisive reactions from all sides and claims to have been around for twenty years, but does not spend much time covering any controversy or criticism that would be expected of such a subject. It gives no real weight to the views of the gay community at large, nor to any impact on the rest of society (e.g. from abolishing "the State sanctioned ritual of terror known as marriage").

Instead, the article spends far too much time quoting five- and six-inch blocks of text to discuss issues without analysis of its central themes or of those quotes. Even between the quote blocks, I find more quotes, things that the article's subject rages against, and precious little actual article. At best, I was left with the impression that I was reading a manifesto or a summary of someone's opinion. In short: movement politics.

  • It seems very geographically focused. How much of the wider or global gay community ascribes to this philosophy? Is a gay person outside of San Francisco likely to know anything about this group or its views? What about even an average gay person in San Francisco?
  • What are the views of the rest of the gay community with respect to this philosophy? The article tells us at length what activists think, but what about the average gay person? What mainstream gay organizations endorse or condemn it? Where does it stand on elements of the mainstream gay community, in return?
  • Are there more sources that do not have a direct relationship to the subject material or associated groups? (e.g. not the "Gay Shame" website, LAGAI, etc)
  • What impact does this group have on the life of an average gay person? Aside from a quoted opinion, what contributions has this philosophy made to the greater gay community?

Most importantly:

  • Is this a mainstream philosophy or a fringe movement?

24.36.21.142 (talk) 03:36, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The queer counterculture is one of the better-known countercultures out there; it's hardly fringe. Just look at how, for example, the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force added Q to its acronym a couple of years ago; organizations that serve the LGBT community find it important to make queer people aware that they are also entitled to their resources. For the most part, queer counterculture agrees with the ideas of Gay Shame to varying degrees (see the article on the subject). I would hardly call this fringe, though it is certainly a culture that defines itself in opposition to heteronormativity and homonormativity. It's minority, but not fringe. Finsternish (talk) 12:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Slightly more clarification: Gay Shame itself is a small collective, but the attitudes it expresses are widely held. It is a particular tactic for expressing the views of queer counterculture. Finsternish (talk) 12:57, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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