Talk:Goa'uld characters in Stargate

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Lord Yu "did not assume the role of a god per se"?

Don't know where that claim came from, or what it's based on. It's certainly not based in SG1 canon. In "Fallen Part 1", Yu clearly berates his First Prime with the words "I am your god – do as I say!", after which the First Prime clearly tells Teal'c, "I must do as my god commands". (Read the transcript.)

71.241.127.192 (talk) 07:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence is 100% correct, and refers to the historical figure, not the stargate character. Yu was NOT an ancient chinese deity, he was an historical figure - an early chinese emperor, that is clearly stated, hyperlinked and footnoted. Below is a synopsis of the lead from the wikipedia article on Yu the Great:

"often regarded with legendary status as Yu the Great (大禹 Dà-Yǔ), was the first ruler and founder of the Xia Dynasty...Yu is one of only two Chinese rulers posthumously honored with the appellation "the Great," the other being Kangxi The Great Emperor of Qing Dynasty." [1] Paul Roberton (talk) 10:43, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Within the context and canon of the show, it is not correct. The character clearly refers to himself as a god (the quotes from the show are correct), and his Jaffa hold that belief. Furthermore, the Jade Emperor is indeed a god in Chinese mythology, the ruler of heaven. Reading the transcript of Fair Game (which this article has directly quoted as original text, therefore is plagiarism), it appears that the character of Daniel Jackson conflated the god Yu Huang Shangdi with the historical Yu the Great, within the show.

The article should be altered to reflect that the character of Dr. Jackson referred to Lord Yu as "not assum(ing) the role of a god per se" and who "may have been one of China's earliest emperors" but that the Lord Yu character clearly referred to himself as a god. The text must show that the words are dialog from the show, because they are not original.

(Also, I do not see an external footnote on this matter. Wikipedia articles are cited as references, in the reference section. Is this valid?)

71.241.92.64 (talk) 08:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On reflection I do agree that from an in-universe perspective he was indeed a god. I still feel its slightly in accurate to say the character was based on a god in the same way Ra or Ba'al are. Perhaps when you address the amendment you can make reference to the conflation somehow. As for the Stargate Wiki, I always assumed it was fan-based. Might be good to run it past someone like sgeureka or someone else at the WP:Stargate as regards to it suitability as a source.

Regards,

Paul Roberton

Paul Roberton (talk) 13:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nerus

There is too much speculation of specifically and accurately say that Nerus was actually killed.

Junior

Should we add Junior to this list, if only for consistency's sake? -- SFH 18:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

you're right, and so i added him.... Maartentje 20:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed him (Sorry). In a way, he wasn't even really "born" (Yes, I know he was born in the technical sense, but he was still maturing and in an incubator for his entire life), and he never did anything. It would kinda be like listing a fetus as a character. JBK405 20:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, he never took a host, but he did figure prominently into several Teal'c related storylines, such as Bane, Threshold, The Changeling. He could just go into the list of minor Goa'uld at the bottom. I just think that he had some relevance. Even Gateworld's omnipedia has an entry for him/her/it. -- SFH 21:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I get what you're saying, and I think it's right on the edge of In/Out, but in my personal opinion he's still on the wrong side of the line. Still, if you add him back I won't take him away again, my own views aren't strong enough to warrant a revert-war; I'll accept whatever the other editors decide. JBK405 22:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The first episode Junior appears in is NOT episode 2 (The Enemy Within). That symbiote went into Rya'c. The real Junior is the one gotten from the tank on Chulak in Bloodlines. 89.120.193.125 18:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Svarog

I'm not 100% sure, but I think he did appear on screen. I've been searching for then name of the actor, but I can't find it. If anyone can, please add it. - ThePoorGuy 13:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think so. All we heard was his large, overly melodramatic voice booming down his commands when he came to conquer the Latonans. JBK405 20:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He did appear in Season 5's Summit and Last Stand^[1]. I remember seeing him. On Gateworld, they have a picture of him, but no name^[2]. The voice heard in The Sentinel was that of Peter DeLuise^[3]. ThePoorGuy 09:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

Spelling

Why are we using the character spelling from Gateworld, a fan site, instead of the spelling that appears in the episode credits, Official Website, and the distributor's website ? 24.97.182.82 04:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

All Goa'uld but Apophis (Stargate), Anubis (Stargate), Ba'al (Stargate) and Ra (Stargate) were merged into this list (which still needs to be trimmed per WP:NOT#PLOT and Wikipedia:WAF#Notability_and_undue_weight) because they don't satisfy WP:FICT, which is necessary to have them have their own article. I further believe merging the last four Goa'uld is the easiest way to go get them inline with WP:FICT. The other option is for someone to find conception, production and reception information and add that to the articles so that they can stand on their own per WP:FICT. Please be aware that this is not a discussion to determine if you like these four articles in their current form, but how you are willing to help improvement (both trimming&merging and encyclopedic expansion are improvement). If someone later wants to work on these articles, the page history allows the articles to be resurrected any time. I'm not in a hurry to merge these characters, but be aware that there is little to be gained by keeping the articles in their current state forever. Merge discussions usually last somewhere between a week and two months. – sgeureka ^t•c 23:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that merging these Goa'uld would be a bad idea. Ba'al, Ra, Apophis and Anubis are all major villains in the series worthy of note. Perhaps Ra could be merged, but the other 3 are as major from a character stance as Jonas Quinn, quite arguably more so. The real life relevance could be explained by the character's impacts on the show's ratings? 70.255.191.80 (talk) 03:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No addition of any kind of real-world information to any of the four articles in almost four weeks, which thus still fail WP:NOT#PLOT. I am therefore performing a trim (because of WP:NOT#PLOT, instead linking to wikia) and merge (per WP:FICT). Editors wishing to bring the articles back should add significant amount of real-world information as outlined in WP:WAF; the plot should be kept short accordingly. I am expressedly not ignoring 70.255.191.80 and User:SFH here, but am editing in line with policies and guidelines. Unexplained full-reverts of the mergers will be reverted as they are in ignorance of policies and guidelines and this discussion. I'll try to answer questions if they come up (I have this page watchlisted, but I can also be contacted via my talkpage.) – sgeureka ^t•c 12:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling of 'Qetesh'

All references that I have found on wikipedia are spelled 'Qetesh', as well as some other places, while in the credits for the Stargate Continuum movie, the spelling is listed as 'Quetesh'. Is this a spelling error in the credits, or can the name be spelled either way? Or is 'Qetesh' the spelling that was used where the actual spelling was unknown? --207.216.221.116 (talk) 14:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ra's old host

This (the article) says that Ra's "humanoid form" contridicts the series. While I do not claim to have a full solution, in the series it has been noted that the Goa'uld use different creature as well as humans for hosts (e.g. Unas). Perhaps Ra's "humanoid form" was actiually him using a different species host. Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 17:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:INUNIVERSE "Trying to reconcile contradictions or fill gaps in a fictional continuity, rather than reporting them as such." All we know is that the last few seconds of Ra in the movie make no sense from the perspective of the series, and while that may not fully qualify for the word "contradict", there is a clear difference between the film and the series that should be noted as such. – sgeureka ^t•c 17:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as how they retconned the whole thing by introducing the superficially similar looking Unas the 2 sentences in question could be considered debatable. Wouldn´t it be better to find a different wording for this discrepancy? --Lennier1 (talk) 12:01, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The glowing alien isn't an Unas, and anyone that isn't blind can see that. And it isn't an Asgard either, as some people like to think. It is meant to be Ra's TRUE form, conceived as the last remaining member of a humanoid species which took over a human body through an artifical, technological means. There is nothing symbiote-related about the thing.

Wright & Glassner never cared about continuity with the film, and it shows. 64.180.93.200 (talk) 00:59, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This statement above is ridiculous. The show paid close attention to the movie...that is why the show is as good as it is. It didn't "jump the shark" the way so many shows based on movies do. To me, the last few seconds of Ra's existence in the movie are meant to show that the entity within Ra perished, as well as the human body. Nothing more. Yes, a little retconning was done to make the Goa'uld snakelike (which made them able to switch hosts at will, and made for a more exciting storyline, in my opinion), but it is a small retcon and the show makes sense when compared to the movie otherwise. 75.106.72.221 (talk) 22:53, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Over Merging?

I personally believe that the Stargate pages on Wikipedia have been severly over-merged.It is very difficult to find real life information on a fictionsl character. Does this mean that I can merge together all of the Seinfeld or for that matter any other characters in a television show together just because there isn't enough real-life information. If you ask me Sgeureke, your claims are bogus. 96.230.192.142 (talk) 22:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It may be that wikipedia is not for you, since my "bogus" claims are based on wikipedia policies and guidelines: WP:NOT#POT, WP:WAF, WP:N, WP:OR, WP:RS, WP:TRIVIA, WP:UNDUE (the list goes on). wikia:Stargate, on the other hand, has so much plot detail as you are looking for and more. If you want to deepen this issue, you can contact me on my talkpage: User talk:Sgeureka. And yes, you may merge any Seinfeld character articles without enough real-world notability. – sgeureka ^t•c 08:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting hairs over Ra

IMHO the whole Ra thing is a thorn in many an SG1 fan's side. Without getting into a messy debate, generally I favour the policy of simply noting the contradictions between the two and moving on.

Having said that, I think it is important to give due credit to Roland Emmerich ( cf Erich Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods, Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods, and Robert E. Howard ) for the basic premise that SG1 canon is founded on. Following that, I would suggest that the following should be changed to reflect this:

"In some scenes of the movie, the outline of Ra's original humanoid form can be seen. ~~This contradicts Stargate SG-1, in which Ra's species are serpentine parasites."~~

should become:

Stargate SG1 contradicts this, retconning Ra as a canonical Goa'uld.

The reason for my proposal is thus:

1. It is chronological.( How can Stargate contradict SG1 when it preceded it?)
2. It acknowledges Emmerich's Stargate as the premise for the TV show.(I'd hope people consider this WP:FACT rather than WP:NOR)
3. Subsequently and explicitly states that SG1 has subtle differences.(Ibid)
4. Simplifies the sentence structure, using the wikilink rather than adjectival prose.
5. As a result, passes the copywriter's 'Plain Language Test'.
6. Explicitly states the retroactive continuity.

As I said, splitting hairs- but I believe it worthwhile. Any objections? Paul Roberton (talk) 14:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ba'al

Should it be mentioned that his name is pronounced like "fall" (even with jokes about balls) in the show, but is most likely taken from Ba'al pronounced like "fail" (hear at merriam-webster)? 68.32.185.166 (talk) 00:26, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Retconning onto Ra

Retconning concepts from SG1 (Asgard, Unas, Symbiotes, Goauld) onto Ra is wading into murkey waters. If one feels it necessary, there is a section on differences between the two productions .With proper evidence and citations, perhaps this contribution could be entered there.
Regards,
Paul.
Paul Roberton (talk) 14:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nirrti

Nirrti was a male in the Singularity episode.

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/transcripts/114.shtml

TEAL'C: This Goa'uld Nirrti, he once sent an emissary of peace, to negotiate a treaty concerning a Stargate, Apophis had taken control of. The negotiations was a ploy, the Stargate was destroyed.

-Ac44ck (talk) 01:47, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] ttp://www.talkabouttelevision.com/group/alt.tv.stargate-sg1/messages/203459.html

[2] ttp://gateworld.net/omnipedia/characters/links/svarog.shtml

[3] ttp://www.lawrence2k.plus.com/SGref/sgrefmain2.htm

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