Talk:Happier Than Ever

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On 27 April 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Happier Than Ever (album) to Happier Than Ever. The result of the discussion was moved.

Albums

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Billie Eilish High‑importance

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Page move

Wow y'all fast as hell! Anyways, I believe that the album article should be titled "Happier Than Ever" and the title track should have "(song)" at the end of its title since the former is the WP:PRIMARY TOPIC, as per Talk:Future Nostalgia#Requested move 4 May 2020. I feel like it's too soon to file a page move request since this article is in its early formative stage and can easily be moved, but I may be wrong. HeyitsBen ^talk 15:09, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have requested for a move over at WP:RMTR. Nahnah4 (talk | contribs) 15:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have contested that. There is no norm that album titles are primary topic, see Baby One More Time and Oops!... I Did It Again. It is way too soon to decide a primary topic, as 24 hours ago, neither the song nor the album had even been announced. Once we see what gets more coverage in sources and once we see what is getting more pageviews, we can open a requested move. There is no need to rush anything. @Nahnah4: RMTR is not a place for controversial moves. It is for technical requests, such as if someone accidentally created this page under the title Happier Than Ever (Album). D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 15:52, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Singles

There is currently a debate as to what the singles from this album are, and I would like to hear different opinions so we can come to a consensus. My opinion is that "Therefore I Am" is the only single, and "My Future", "Your Power" and "Happier Than Ever" are not singles. "Therefore I Am" was referred to as the lead single from the album by CinemaBlend, so we should stick to the source. "My Future" being a single, much less the lead single, from the album is not sourced, and it shouldn't be added until a source is provided that states the song was released in promotion of the album. If it was the start of the album's promo cycle, it wouldn't be hard to find a source that states the song was released in promotion of the album. "Happier Than Ever" doesn't even have a release date set (and no, it's not April 29), and I'm starting to think the song being a single is all a hoax and it's gonna turn out to be a Sweetener situation where the title track is just a song. "Your Power" is being independently released this Thursday, so that's at least a promo single, but there aren't any sources calling it a single, so we can't give it single status. I will be pinging all ping-able (aka no IP addresses because I can't ping those) users who have contributed to this dispute shortly. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 20:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In no particular order, I am pinging MaranoFan, Gagaluv1, DuaLipaFan23951, Darkestimagination, King G.A, Rangel Carregosa and DovahDuck as they are involved in this. Any uninvolved users/involved IPs who I could not ping can also contribute if they wish. If you are confused as to why I pinged you, I will be more than happy to explain. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 20:47, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think it was only included on the album and just a standalone single at the time. However now, I think it’s the lead single because Billie described in Jan 2020 that’s she working on her second album, so now I see why people think it’s the lead single, and now I agree. Anyone else? DuaLipaFan23951 (talk) 21:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DuaLipaFan23951: Sorry, could you clarify which song you mean? As well, working on an album and an album promotional cycle are two different things. Billie can start work on an album in 2014, but until someone starts publicly promoting it, the promotional cycle hasn't started yet. Just like how CinemaBlend implied that the promotional cycle for Happier Than Ever started in November 2020 with the release of "Therefore I Am". Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 21:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. First of all, "my future" is stylized in all lowercase letters while all the other songs are not. Second, I remember Billie saying that "Therefore I Am" would be on the album but she did not say anything about "my future". So I think it is safe to say that "my future" was only included on the album and not from it. Plus, I think we should probably wait for Billie to announce "Your Power" as the next single before adding it, that way it is much safer. 199.7.159.79 (talk) 21:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I just don't see why this is a debate. "Included on the album" and "from the album" mean the same thing. No statement was ever made that "My Future" was a non-album single. Some sources did call "Therefore I Am" the lead single from the album but to my knowledge Billie herself never did. "My Future" was released as a single and then a year later an album was released with that song on its standard track list. I don't see how you can argue "My Future" is not a single from Happier Than Ever. Just because the title wasn't announced at the time doesn't mean it still isn't a single from the album, by that point she had already announced she was working on it. If you can find me a reliable source that calls "My Future" a standalone or non-album single, I'm open to it. But to imply that it's not a single from the album is ridiculous to me.Gagaluv1 (talk) 22:16, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I messed up my wording. I meant that "included on the album" and "released in promotion of the album" are two different things. The exact same thing happened at Be (BTS album), where "Life Goes On" was said to be the lead single by sources, even though "Dynamite" was released three months prior and was included on the standard edition, even though BTS never called either song the lead single. So, it all boils down to what the sources say. We have a source that says "Therefore I Am" is the lead single, which supports my point but contradicts your point, so that's why this is a debate. Lastly, Billie herself doesn't need to confirm something for it to be true. Taylor Swift never confirmed or denied the single status of "Exile", but the song is still a single, for example. D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 22:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that. However it seems to me that those articles claiming that "Therefore I Am" is the lead single are now outdated given the information we have now. It may have seemed at the time that the song was the first single from the album but now that we have the full track list we know that's not the case. Whether or not Billie Eilish ever officially stated "My Future" was a single from the album is irrelevant to the fact that it was released as a single and is included on this album. I'm confused by your wording of "released in promotion of the album". What does that mean to you exactly? To me it seems like an arbitrary statement that would be hard to explicitly source.Gagaluv1 (talk) 23:24, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources mention that both singles are included on the tracklist but don't specify if they were released in promotion of the album :

One source explicitly says that they are from the album :

V : She's already released two full tracks from the new album—the jazzy lo-fi song "My Future" last July, and the hip-hop-influenced "Therefore I Am" in November 2020

Two sources only mention "Therefore I Am", including one that calls it the first single :

Entertainment Weekly : The first single from the album, "Therefore I Am,"
Rolling Stone The 16-song tracklist includes "Therefore I Am," which Eilish dropped last fall

Two sources say that both songs are one-off singles :

Consequence of Sound : Throughout 2020, Eilish released a series of one-off singles, including "therefore i am", "my future"
Forbes : The first song from her new album will drop in a couple days

I have probably missed some articles so please feel free to add other ones. I support having "My Future" as the first single from the album as most articles mention both songs. Even though they don't explicitly say that they were both released in promotion of the album, I believe that it is implied. Mirliz (talk) 23:33, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, let us add both as singles. "My Future" and "Therefore I Am" appear on the standard edition of the album, appear on it since day 1, and haven't been included on another album. The claim "they weren't released in promotion of the album" is a baseless and vague one. Just because Eilish didn't announce them as being included on an album immediately, doesn't mean they were not planned to be. Just for example, I don't think Bieber initially announced "Holy", "Lonely" and "Anyone" as singles from Justice either, though they obviously were.--N Ø 07:06, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I second this. -- dylx^{(t | c)} 13:32, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with points raised by Doggy54321 and MaranoFan above; explicit confirmation from an artist themselves isn't needed in order for us to list them as singles on an album, just from established reliable sources. It's narrow-minded in this case particularly to say that they weren't intended to promote the album, especially when she discussed "the album she produced during her time quarantined" during the release of "Therefore I Am", months prior to any official announcement. Sean Stephens (talk) 14:44, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Now that I've gotten a chance to look at all the sources, I definitely think both singles should be listed. I still stand by my points about "Your Power" and "Happier Than Ever" not being listed as singles, but no one really seems to be commenting on that as it's pretty obvious. I'm not gonna strike my comments above, as that might be confusing to uninvolved users who are just joining the discussion, but I do think that "My Future" and "Therefore I Am" should be listed as singles. Update: Now that Billboard has called "Your Power" a single, it's safe to say that the song is a single, so I now support "Your Power" being added as a single. D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 14:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC) (updated 16:59, 28 April 2021 (UTC))[reply]

billie just cane out with a new single NDA should we make a wiki page about it? SubscribeToHaghighi (talk) 06:42, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

came SubscribeToHaghighi (talk) 06:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Doggy54321: I'm choosing to ping you since you started this discussion; recently User:Ricky14127 changed the article's lead and promotion sections, where they stated that "my future" and "Lost Cause" are promo singles only. And even though I would some sort of agree on that, since their lack of radio support and laggy chart runs, but I'm not sure if that's enough to disqualify those songs from single statuses. infsai (talkie? UwU) 20:52, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Infsai: Thanks for the ping. As you can see above, multiple credible sources refer to "My Future" as a single, so it's just not our place to debate whether the song is actually a single or not. As for "Lost Cause", there are also multiple reliable sources calling it a single, so I don't see an issue with that either. I think we need to stick to the source instead of making assumptions. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 23:31, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Red flag warning

Hi guys, I tried adding information to the Music and Lyrics section of the “Happier Than Ever” page and it told me that the section contains “original research.” I put in citations after nearly every line, what else do I have to do to remove the red flag warning? Joyasaxena21 (talk) 17:26, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]