Talk:Hosank

Finished

If you guys see someone transliterating Armenian to a pre-reform version please fix it, thanks Peachy1621 (talk) 03:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Lol the flag and the template is labeled as "party"

This isn't a party, it's a movement, so we should probably change it? Peachy1621 (talk) 04:06, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Hosank also has a coat of arms and an anthem

I see in Hosank neo-nazi totalitarian group-movement website, I found an coat of arms (on the website it is on a black background) and an war flag, however in Wikipedia the coat of arms is likely to be on transparent background. And an song called «Մի՛շտ Հայ» that is also the anthem of Hosank, an neo-nazi group and movement. The song-anthem is made by Ռահվիրա studio. The flag, war flag, and coat of arms are modelled after Nazi Party.

Hosank has also been in Sardarapat Memorial and Amberd. References also should be find in news websites. 83.139.28.182 (talk) 19:28, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead

Since some can't comprehend the basic tenants of WP:BRD, I'll start off the discussion. Rahammz is insisting to change the political ideology of the movement to "Neo-Nazi". First off, most of the sources in the article are from Israeli publications. Given the sensitive topic, naturally, there were some WP:POV biases. When I created this article in January, WP:RS was limited. I tried diligently to maintain a WP:NPOV position as best as possible by not only differing to what RS stated, but also, how the movement itself identifies. Therefore, I carefully chose to use "National Socialist" as the most neutral term, while linking it to Neo-Nazism. You do understand that both terms are synonymous, right? They literally mean the same thing. National Socialist = Neo-Nazism and Neo-Nazism= National Socialist. The movement's website and X, however, both vehemently deny any connection to Nazism, with the leader denying the movement is a Nazi movement. Therefore, a fine WP:BALANCE must be maintained between the primary and secondary sources to reflect how the movement self-identifies, but also, what RS distinguishes the movement as. As you can see, there was plenty of thought process and research behind this, while adhering to policy. Yet, Rahammz wants to change the terminology being used based on an WP:ES of "vandalism" while also not providing any RS to prove the movement exclusively identifies as a Neo-Nazi group. Quite laughable. Maintaining the status quo is the fairest option. Archives908 (talk) 13:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

"Neo-Nazism comprises the post-World War II militant, social, and political movements that seek to revive and reinstate Nazi ideology."

This is the definition of neo-nazism according to Wikipedia itself. Hosank is a neo-nazi org, simply because in their own website they identify as a "National Socialist" political movement. Which as you are aware enough to admit is synonymous with Nazism. However to simply put it, any "political movements that seek to revive and reinstate Nazi ideology" post WW2 is identified as a neo-nazi party. You can check the Wikipedia article list of white nationalist organizations and see that all post-WW2 self proclaimed National Socialist political groups asre identified as neo-nazi. The fact that you insist that Hosank can't be a neo-nazi group because they don't use the term neo-nazi is hilarious considering you seem to not understand that Nazis consider the term "Nazi" to be an insult. Yet this is irrelevant as every single Nazi/Neo-nazi Party on Wikipedia article is identified with the term Nazi, Including the original Nazi Party itself! The term "National Socialism" is simply not used for any political party in the lead or ideology section.

I've added a non Israeli source because you seem to be uncomfortable with Jewish websites identifying a self proclaimed National Socialist organisation as neo-nazi. Again simply to put it, Hosank doesn't get special treatment in their Wikipedia lead because you seem to have deemed identifying a neo-nazi group as neo-nazi to be a "sensitive topic". Please don't be stubborn, one might think you are sympathetic to this organisation. Rahammz (talk) 17:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Cease your hostile and false accusations and stay focused on the subject matter. I have nothing against Israeli or Jewish sources (I'm the one that found and utilized them in the first place), but per WP:WEIGHT topics should be analyzed through a variety of credible sources to avoid any potential biases. Perhaps next time, you can actually provide WP:RS when you make an edit in the first place to avoid all this. You would think an editor with 28K contributions would have known this by now. -_- Archives908 (talk) 18:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

You are a long-time editor and it seems most of your edits on are political events/groups yet have failed to see that term "National Socialist" is never used in the lead of any neo-nazi group.

"For our political-economic system, we prefer National Socialism..." This is from the 15 pillars of Hosank from their own website which you yourself have cited in the article. But for some reason you believe the term neo-nazi for this group to be considered a sensitive topic when this is the academically correct term for all post-WW2 "National Socialist" movements. You then proceeded to call my edits "laughable" and weren't able to accept that this is an exclusively neo-nazi group when their own Manifesto claims to be an exclusively nazi party. I think the point here is that this edit war shouldn't have happened in the first place when I already concisely explained in my edit summaries why these sort of groups are identified as Neo-nazi. This was never a WP:WEIGHT topic as it is very clear cut and uncontroversial. Regardless I apologise if I came off as hostile, I didn't accused you of anything, I was merely pointing out some consistent behaviour. Rahammz (talk) 19:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not focus on Neo-Nazi articles or topics, and you shouldn't assume that nor that the average person would know the difference between a highly synonymous term. I have created over 200 articles on English Wikipedia, and only 1 of them (this article) is related to "Neo-Nazism/National Socialism". Most of my interests are centered around Pro-Europeanism. Thank you, I accept your apology. I myself identify as a progressive democrat, so to make the accusation that I am "sympathetic" to this group was hurtful. I would never imply that about another editor because of the damaging connotations that those accusations can carry. I used the term "laughable" in reference to the fact that you did not provide any WP:RS to back up your statements and you claimed "vandalism" when I simply restored the last stable version as no WP:CON had been reached. I don't believe that constitutes vandalism, especially considering I did not violate WP:3RR and also initiated the conversation here. In any case, my apologies if you took that personally. I'm ready to move on from this. All the best, Archives908 (talk) 19:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)