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I would like to ask the one who change to the western style of naming someone why she did this. Because I really think that when we are talking about Japanese actor, singer or people in general, we should respect the way we are using their name. Especially when it's beside Kanji. Anyone who will read the article and see that it's inverse will get a little mad.

So, why have the person inverse the names?

This is why. Nique talk 00:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article seems to be too informal and smacks of POV-pushing. Could someone do a rewrite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.87.186.236 (talk) 17:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article is a sourced and objectively written biography. But when there are precise complaints about certain parts or suggestions, they can be discussed anytime here. --Vanilla Ichigo (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To 91.3.65.149 (talk)

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Regarding the Koji Seto article, first, please stop referring to him in the article as "Koji." He has to be referred by his surname as Seto to make the article sound objective and professional and because of this rule.

Which leads to my 2nd point about the introduction. Yes referencing Sandra Bullock's article is okay, but if you're going to reference her article as a measure to this article, take care to notice that while her intro does mention at least six of her works, that is because they are PREVALENT, IMPORTANT, and DISTINGUISHING milestone achievements in her career that established her as a star.

While I understand that as a Seto fan we want to list all our favorite roles in his intro, sadly, his roles in Otomen and Atashinchi no Danshi, while memorable in spurts, he was a side character, not a lead, and none of those roles are distinguishing enough in his young career. His role as Eiji in Tenimyu is important because that was one of his first "leading" roles, not to mention the huge support behind Tenimyu. Of course his next important role would be as Wataru in Kamen Rider Kiva. The Kamen Rider series are very famous in Japan, thus it's a given that his role as Wataru would be in the into. His role as Hiro in Koizora is a bit on the fence, given out poorly the show did in terms of viewership in Japan, not to mention by the time the drama came out, there was already negative reaction to the author's confession that the book she had written was not based on real events. Yes, it was a starring role and it allowed him to show his dramatic chops, which is why I included it in his into, but it's a bit of stretch to put his role in Koizora up there, just for the sheer fact that Koizora the movie is more well known than the drama. But again, Seto did beat thousands of people for that role, so for a personal achievement that's good for him. But is it his most well known role? I doubt it. Most people probably know him as Eiji or Wataru.

Regarding paragraph spacing, I understand the double space would make the article easier to read, but no wikipedia article has those double spaces. Again, because the Sandra Bullock article was mentioned to me as a way to measure this article, if we look at her article, there are no double spaces in her article either. If you really want to make his article easier to read, I suggest cutting down the article's length - like cutting out unnecessary descriptions of show and focus just on important moments in his career.

As for Natsu Doko ... I also contemplated about adding it to the article. He's not featured on the CD and like you said, he is featured only like 2 minutes total in the DVD, but his name is mentioned in the D-Boys website for Natsu Doko CD+DVD which is why I placed it in his wikipage. Though I agree with you, it mostly shouldn't be there - but he did promote the DVD with the other members during the winter. For now, we'll leave it off his page.

Thanks for your input, but try to remember that the wikipage isn't supposed to be a rambling biography of the person. And especially with someone like Seto, whose career is just starting, every little roles might seem important, but in the grand scheme of his career, it won't be. So try to pare down his article into concise moments of his career like that Sandra Bullock article you mentioned to me.

--Vera26 (talk) 09:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Sandra Bullocks article was only meant as example for a good listing of major works for an actor in the head of a Wikipedia article, not to recite since there is of course a given difference between a young japanese actor and an etablished Hollywood star. The point is, that the series I listed in Koji Setos article-head are his major works up to now. Rinne no Ame and Ju-On - Black Girl should be included too, since they are indeed also distinguishing for his career. Ju-On - Black Girl is a movie that got an English released DVD, as part of a well-known film-series to an international audience and Rinne no Ame won an Writers Award. The other mentioned TV Series were all Prime Time Shows and for Koji starring parts as member of the main cast. Plus, he was always involved in promotional work, since he was one of the casts most prominent actors. Beside his official profile and his japanese Wikipedia article, and when you read reports about him or news, you will always find at least Atashinchi no Danshi, Otomen and Koizora mentioned, not Tenimyu and very rarely Kamen Rider Kiva - when only mentioned between the Prime Time Shows.

When I started to update Koji Seto´s article here on Wikipedia over 2 years ago, the general use of the first name of artists was very common, even for japanese artists. That´s why I kept it with Koji the same. But I already changed it.

I still think that the use of paragraphs would make it a lot easier to read most of Wiki´s articles. I´m not a native english speaker, how you might notice, but in my language is the use of paragraphs to divide text, part of a good text-structure and necessary for a clean overview. I saw no rule in the guideline of Wikipedia against it. Also, I looked over the article again and don´t think that it includes unecessary details. There are notes and a short description for a part, in two or three words, can give an idea about the range of the actor.

91.3.65.149 (talk) 14:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but as you pointed out, the Sandra Bullock article is also a good example of how a wikipedia article should be written. It's concise and straightforward, hitting important milestones in her career while glossing over minor bit roles. Rinne no Ame and Ju-On - Black Girl should not be included in the top because even if the Ju-On movie series are famous, a straight to DVD release does not make a role notable. Rinne no Ame won a Writers award which was why it got made. It's not because Rinne no Ame was produced and then won a young writers award. Plus, the distinguish of winning the writers award goes to Rinne no Ame, not Seto Koji. Now say, if he won an award for his role in Rinne no Ame, then I can understand why it'd be prevalent in his intro.

And yes, while prime time shows are important and would boost his career, his roles in both prime time shows were at best, supporting cast roles. Media reports tend to mention prime time shows because that's the easiest source material to reference because an audience will recognize the name - but that doesn't mean they'll remember Seto's role in those shows as he was NOT THE MAIN LEAD.

As for the paragraphs, it's already split into paragraphs. There is no need to add an extra line break or double space paragraphs. As cited here: [1], it is a courtesy not to add the extra paragraph space, not a mandate if you don't care about the extra burden on the systems and other users. But it's still an ongoing style format that is still being debated by wikipedia users. For now, it's best to format the article's paragraphs like the best of wikipedia articles.

I disagree about the article being concise. It's written with too much unnecessary details about him, his work, and six degrees of Seto Koji.

For example, the opening sentence: "Born in 1988 on the land side of Kyushu, Koji Seto grew up as the oldest child with two younger sisters." It's not really necessary to add "on the land side of Kyushu" as I'm sure "Born in 1988, Koji Seto grew up as the oldest child with two younger sisters." will be enough to convey that he was born in Kyushu - and yes on land, as I doubt there have been many births on sea or in air.

Another sentence that needs cutting down is: "In 151 performances the name Setomaru was established (the nickname was his own idea, by combining his own surname (Seto) and Eiji's (Maru) and took its place in the hearts of fans in Japan and all over the world until his Graduation alongside the members of the 3rd Seigaku-Generation on September 9, 2007." I don't think "took its place in the hearts of fans in Japan and all over the world" is necessary in this sentence as it sounds very subjective. But it does prove my point that his role in Tenimyu was a stepping milestone in his career as it launched him recognition with Tenimyu fans (both in Japan and outside).

You also need to stop reverting the articles. The revert tool is useful but it's also very lazy because you're only making changes to the intro so there's no need to revert the entire article's content. Second, you keep reverting to a previous edit that had a bunch of grammatical errors and it's really difficult to keep reading through the article and correcting the grammar when it was correct in a later draft.

Otherwise than that, we may have our disagreement over his notable roles and the conciseness of the article, but thanks for responding. --Vera26 (talk) 22:08, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


No, I only mentioned the Sandra Bullock article as example for a good introduction to an actor, how it´s also meant in the Wikipedia guideline. Also, refering to parts as "major works" is more neutral than "best known as" and should be kept.

Please, don´t use Wikipedia like a Tenimyu Fanpage. It seems that you want to point out at every actor´s profile you are working on, that it was his most important work. Even when he has already build up a career with parts that are more higher profiled than his role in Tenimyu (merely a stage musical with a limited fandom in and out of Japan). Another one would be Yuu Shirota, who is already also more known through his supporting part in Rookies and minor part in Hanazakarino Kimitachihe, than as Tezuka Kunimitsu. Even Koji Seto was, during his time in the musical, already more known to a broader audience through his TV parts (Rocket Boys, Happy Boys and OhaStar), which is often also noted by his co-stars back in the time. Tenimyu was to no time a "stepping milestone" for him, what was also the reason that lead to the graduation of the 3rd Seigaku Generation. Most of them had engagements that would lead to trouble with their schedules, that´s why the producers decide the Graduation in Summer 2007. Further is Eiji Kikumaru not a leading part, the lead character is Ryoma Echizen. Kikumaru is a main part like Satoru Okura and Ariake Yamato.

I looked over the article and took out a few not necessary informations. Tomo Yanagishita´s part in the TV Series Tumbling is only a minor part, like Kotaro Yanagi in Rocket Boys, what makes it unecessary to mention them.

Ju-On - Black Girl and Ju-On - Old Woman were running in cinema as Double-Feature and shown on Movie Festivals, it´s was not a straight-to-DVD release, unless you refer to the UK release. Rinne no Ame was made prior to winning the Best Newcomer Scriptwriter Award, the movie was shown at the Ceremony, were the author was awarded. Both actors received prais from the judges, but got not awarded of course since there is no acting-category. Also, Rinne no Ame was until now not released on DVD, that is why I decided to leave it out of the head.


91.3.65.149 (talk) 23:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, major works would be more neutral than best known as, but the construction of "To his major works belong his lead roles" is poor grammar and thus it was better phrased as "best known as" until a better construction of "major works" was added. As for Tenimyu, I have not used his page as a "Tenimyu" fanpage. Yes, every actor's profile I've contributed significantly does mention Tenimyu but that's because EVERY actor's profile that I have worked on HAS worked on Tenimyu and for most, it was a period in their lives that took up much of their time and efforts. At the time, Tenimyu was a large part of their lives. Every Tenimyu cast graduates because of schedule conflicts - it's nothing to downplay their time with the musicals. And yes, I may have created and written many of their articles, but I created those articles back in 2006/2007, which means that there has been about 3 years for many contributors to edit those articles. Only recently have I started re-editing these articles to reflect objectivity - as you can see the Shirota Yu article has been reduced significantly. I have no problem removing much of the "six degrees" portions to the article as I too think it's not important to mention Yanagi and Endo in Rocket Boys or his other Tenimyu associates. I'm not the one that wrote any of that information on the Koji Seto page. Ju-On's association with Seto was minor - I don't think it's a significant role for him nor for his career despite it being shown in "movie festivals". If you can find the source that states Rinne no Ame winning the Best Newcomer Scriptwriter Award at which ceremony, then please, by all means, reference that in the article - as well as the part of the judges praising their acting. If you can find the source/link, then add it to the article. Because right now, it's just a tv movie which won a "best newcomer scriptwriter award. Which ceremony was this? Was it an important ceremony / award ceremony in Japan? etc. etc.

--Vera26 (talk) 00:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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