Talk:Kleicha

Fig Newtons

Those cookies kind of look like fig newtons. Any similarities? Are they possibly the cookie that Fig Newtons are based on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.156.128.25 (talk) 02:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, the ones in that photo don't look like the traditional ones that I've had. Maybe they are a commercial variety. But you can bet your last cent the Iraqis were the first to combine dates and figs with dough/pastry. ^Izzedine 14:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge

This article should probably be merged with Koloocheh (or the other way around). It is the same word (only pronounced slightly differently) and they are effectively the same thing.--الدبوني (talk) 17:55, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Etymology

I removed the Etymology section. As written, it was not verified in the cited source, an old web page by Nawal Nasrallah. Also, Nasrallah is a food writer, not an etymologist, and her arguments are clearly entirely speculative; she also completely contradicts the conclusions (that it comes from a dry measure called keilacha) in a later text. In both cases she begins by saying we don't actually know the origin or meaning of the word: "We have all wondered, at one point or another, where the name kleicha came from, but have not got a satisfactory explanation. However, I think I have put my finger on a clue." and "I find it rather puzzling that people are in the dark when it comes to the origin of this cookie or how it came to beassociated with religious festivals, not to mention what it means." The arguments that follow are interesting, but go too far, and there are no other sources that give the same analysis or etymology (that are not based on hers). Some parts of the second text could maybe be used, like the name of cookie molds being qalab al-kalija in the medieval cookbooks, even though the cookie is called something else. But most of it should be treated with skepticism and not stated as facts, as I don't think either of these can be considered reliable sources for the etymology. --IamNotU (talk) 23:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

References

The etymology for this word is well known and has been stated in the wiktionary page with sources. "A concise Pahlavi dictionary" by Mackenzie, D.N is one of the, if not the most reliable Pahlavi dictionaries in academia today. This source states that kliecha comes from the middle persian word kuluchag. 173.206.83.86 (talk) 06:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Assyrian influence

The article starts with:

Kleicha (Syriac: ܟܠܝܟ̰ܐ killecha, Arabic: كليچة,Turkish: kiliçe ) is sometimes considered to be the national cookie of Iraq, due to Assyrian influence of the country.[2]

But the reference contains no indication that the Kleicha has any Assyrian influence, nor is there any other reference confirming this. The last part of the sentence should be removed. 143.178.231.218 (talk) 22:12, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Origins of the cookie

I could not find any sources in the article written by Nawal Nasrallah supporting the fact that these cookies originated in Mesopotamia. The source claims that similar cookies were called "Irnin" in 13th-century Arabic sources. However, there is no evidence suggesting that these cookies are the same as Kleicha. Nasrallah herself admits that the names are not similar at all. In fact, Nasrallah also states that "Ibn Battuta, in his famous 14 -Century travel book, mentioned that he was offered Kalija in Khuwarizm, a Persian province now in Uzbekistan. He further explained that they were pastries kneaded with samn (clarified butter), so it should have been some sort of rich pastry." "Kalija" is obviously an Arabized version of koloocheh/klieche, since Arabic does not have a "ch" sound. The Iraqi dialect also did not have the 'ch" sound at the time, it was later added to the Iraqi dialect due to Persian influence. This suggestion seems more plausible since the word Kleicha originates from Middle Persian and because the Abbasid cuisine was largely based on Persian cuisine, which is something Nasrallah even noted in her article. Due to this, I think it is misleading to have two separate articles for "Koloocheh" which is stated to be of Iranian origin on the Wikipedia page, and "Kliecha," when it is evident that they are both different variations of the same cookie. 99.209.41.22 (talk) 18:23, 1 December 2022 (UTC)