Talk:Life and Fate

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Inadequate "Plot" Summary

The plot summary in this section rather seems to summarize the ideas behind the novel rather than the actual story.

Propaganda, what else do you expect?

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.112.186 (talk) 22:19, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think all these 'citation needed' notes could just use the book itself as a citation. Erik Springelkamp (talk) 21:01, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

attempting to receive a traveling pass

How attempting to receive a traveling pass(a war episode to re-create war time atmosphere) can be 'argument against communism'? How people even manage to find anything anti-Communist in this book? I have read it in Russian and only can say that it is 99% anti-Fascist. It in fact has a degree of anti-Stalinism in line with the Khrushchev's era propaganda.--Dojarca (talk) 01:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I really think that your minds are too concerned with the defense of bloody ideologies. As the authors himself says, throught Ikonnikov, Soviet-Communism and German-Nazism are two ideologies that should be treated equally. Both had concentration camps, and both believed that they were fighting in the name of "good" (see chapters 1-6). Grossman would feel sick about your comments. V.tor (talk), 17 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.191.52.114 (talk)

Word Usage May be Confusing to the Lay Person

There are a few times that the term Communism is used in place of Totalitarianism. It's important to remember that Totalitarianism is a form of government (I teach at a University and every year I stress this point to my students). Communism in its intended form never took fruition in the Soviet Union because Totalitarianism was first to take root (there are far more details one could go in to but this is not the time nor place). If one reads Life and Fate very closely, it becomes apparent that Grossman took special care not to confuse the reader with the ideals of 'communal communism' (Marxism for example) with the Totalitarian State of the Soviet Union. I noticed many passages that the author(s) of this wiki page were either confused on or simply made errors due to lack of measured thought. These passages need to be changed in order to prevent severe confusion in regards to Communist Theory.76.123.221.222 (talk) 01:48, 30 August 2010 (UTC)Dr. Owenby[reply]

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Adding citations

At the moment, I am trying to add citations to this article, adding or taking out text where there are problems that cannot be surmounted. I will also be trying to add a section on the 12 part television series that came out in Russia a few years ago.Everlong Day (talk) 11:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In looking through various documents on the subject for citations, I have found two separate sources that disagree with the section in Main Characters which claims that Grossman's mother wrote to him. Both sources very clearly state that she did not write of her impending fate to her son. Grossman only learned of her fate later. I will correct that tomorrow.--Everlong Day (talk) 18:09, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have come to the conclusion that this article needs a lot of work to sort it out, more than I feel that I can do. --Everlong Day (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mother's Death

As the person who put it in, I feel I have to explain why I have since felt the need to re-examine the section. Re-reading the passage in Robert Chandler cited, it makes no sense to read it as he joined up feeling guilt over his mother's death. Any guilt is certainly a component in the way he writes Life and Fate, however, his sentence "Grossman may have looked on the war as a chance to redeem himself. He volunteered as an ordinary soldier, despite his bad eyesight and poor health" which comes immediately after, does not make sense. It is not what is said in "A Writer at War" edited with commentary by the historian Antony Beevor. Beevor says that his mother had refused to leave because she had to look after an incapacitated niece; he also notes that Grossman had volunteered immediately after 22 June 1941, before he learned that Berdychiv had been overrun. He only clearly learned his mother's fate in 1944.^[1] I have rectified the mistake. I am sorry for the confusion.--Everlong Day (talk) 13:19, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

^ Grossman, Vasily. "Introduction". In Beevor, Antony; Vinogradova, Luba (eds.). A Writer at War: Vasily Grossman with the Red Army. London: Random House. ISBN 9781407092010. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |format= requires |url= (help)

The Road: Short Fiction and Essays

The version of The Road: Short Fiction and Essays that I have access to is the eBook version which does not have page numbers. The best I can do is give which section of the book I am referencing. Normally it will be the Introduction to the relevant part.--Everlong Day (talk) 11:13, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Lyolya Klestova

It is Robert Chandler who makes the misidentification of her name as Lyolya Dominikina in his Introduction to Grossman's Life and Fate (p.xvi). This is corrected in Robert and Elizabeth Chandler's later translation of short stories and essays by Grossman in The Road: Short Fiction and Essays (in the Introduction to Part III).

I have left the name Lyolya Dominikina in the article, pointing out that it is an mistake so that people don't revert it. The correction is from Chandler who made the mistake in the first place. --Everlong Day (talk) 15:16, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A note on historical context

One thing that needs to be stressed is that, though Life and Fate is written from the point of view of various members of Schtrum family at the time of Stalingrad. It is also written from the point of view of Grossman who was a witness to these events, but who also knew the outcome of these events, and was, in part, responding to this; for example, in his response to the death of the mother in the story, and the death of his own mother. There is a very clear dialogue between Grossman and the events.--Everlong Day (talk) 11:23, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Grossman, Vasily. "Introduction". In Beevor, Antony; Vinogradova, Luba (eds.). A Writer at War: Vasily Grossman with the Red Army. London: Random House. ISBN 9781407092010. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |format= requires |url= (help)

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