Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 27
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Lionel Messi. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 20 | ← | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 |
"FIFA Player of the Year" proposal (2)
I suggested a discussion about this topic in December, to no response. I am trying again, hoping to find some kind of feedback, and updating my point in view of the recent The Best FIFA Football Awards 2023.
I was thinking we could change the lead into something like this "Messi has won a record eight Ballon d'Or awards, a record six European Golden Shoes, and he was named the world's best player by FIFA a record eight times." I think it could be appropriate, since the FIFA Ballon d'Or is recognized both by France Football and FIFA, so he's an eight time Ballon d'Or winner (2009, 2019, 2021, 2023 France Football Ballon d'Or - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 FIFA Ballon d'Or) as it's currently stated, but technically he is also eight time "world's best" according to FIFA (2009 FIFA World Player of the Year - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 FIFA Ballon d'Or - 2019, 2022, 2023 FIFA The Best Men's Player), as it's highlighted here. What do you think about this idea? Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 21:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Addendum per FIFA website: "Lionel Messi has been crowned The Best FIFA Men's Player 2023, retaining the title he won in 2022 [...] Messi also won the 2019 Best FIFA Men's Player award and was recognised by FIFA as the leading player in the men's game on five occasions prior to that - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2015 - making this his eighth individual award in total." --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 21:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging Black Kite, GiantSnowman, Guyrichtheman, Idiosincrático, Joseph2302, MatthewNewHouse, Muur, Oahid, PeeJay, Sadsadas, Stevie fae Scotland, 750h+, AirshipJungleman29, Jtbobwaysf, and Yotrages hoping to get some replies. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 17:32, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- What are you proposing? Could you post a diff? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- Basically, to add the fact that Messi "was named the world's best player by FIFA a record eight times" in the lede, as FIFA is football's governing body, this is relevant enough, certainly more than the Ballon d'Or Dream Team. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 13:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- What are you proposing? Could you post a diff? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging Black Kite, GiantSnowman, Guyrichtheman, Idiosincrático, Joseph2302, MatthewNewHouse, Muur, Oahid, PeeJay, Sadsadas, Stevie fae Scotland, 750h+, AirshipJungleman29, Jtbobwaysf, and Yotrages hoping to get some replies. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 17:32, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 January 2024
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Messi has changed from wearing the adidas Nemeziz boots and now wears the adidas X Crazyfast Messi.1 boots [1] Hmmd.yousuf (talk) 07:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Not done for now: I don't believe what cleats he is wearing is needed in the article. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 14:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ "What Soccer Cleats Does Lionel Messi Wear?". Soccer Mavericks. Retrieved 22 January 2024.
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 January 2024
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“widely regarded as one of the best”.. this is not correct wording. change it right away its “regarded as the best player in the history of the game” 50.101.206.228 (talk) 19:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Not done Widely addressed in past discussions. 19:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 January 2024 (2)
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Change main photo of Messi if possible; Maradona, Pelé and players of their status should have a photo of them holding the World Cup trophy as the main thing. 89.176.149.175 (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- we dont have one available --FMSky (talk) 01:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Changes to the section about his trial at River Plate
The article says "He was scouted by Buenos Aires club River Plate, whose playmaker, Pablo Aimar, whom he idolised. It was speculated that he failed to be signed into River Plate due to his ill health, however in a 2019 interview, Messi revealed that the club had offered to pay for his medical treatment despite ultimately rejecting him. "
The wording is wrong as it makes it seem as River Plate rejected him, when in the source cited Messi himself says it was Newell's old boys who didn't allow him to move clubs.
from the article, first in spanish then translated to english:
"Fui a River, porque uno de mis compañeros venía a Buenos Aires a probarse. Jugué 20 minutos, hice cuatro goles y me dijeron vuelva con el pase. Me querían pagar el tratamiento, cosa que no hacían en Newell's. Pero cuando fui a buscar el pase me sacaron cagando. Me acuerdo que peleamos y nunca me lo dieron", dijo Messi."
"I went to River, because one of my teammates was coming to Buenos Aires for a trial. I played 20 minutes, scored four and they told me to comeback with the transfer. They wanted to pay for the treatment, which Newell's didn't. But when I went to ask for the transfer they told me to fuck off. I remember we fought and they never gave it to me"
Transfer serving as a translation of "pase" refering to the paperwork required for him to switch clubs. MesopotamicMark (talk) 21:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Co owner of kru esports
messi became co owner of kru esports 210.16.85.202 (talk) 05:28, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
2024 Messi did miss a match in Hong Kong because of a injury what fans say was a scam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.58.114 (talk) 09:43, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 February 2024
Insert the missing incident in Hong Kong in the "2023–present: 100 international goals" section, I guess? Description of the incident will be something like this:
"On 4 February, Messi attended a friendly match when against Hong Kong League XI as an Inter Miami member in Hong Kong, but remained on the bench instead of play during the match. Local fans their anger and the Hong Kong government expressed a "deep disappointment" for the missing. Messi later explained his missing was because of a muscle injury."
The missing incident sparked a huge controversy on the Internet, that is reported by The Guardian and CNN. See the Chinese Wikipedia entry zh:2024年香港足球友誼賽梅西缺陣事件 for further details. 2404:0:8417:1AED:4186:D640:99F3:44A2 (talk) 01:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 February 2024
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Remove the controversial part related to Hong Kong and Chinese politics
I want to request the Hong Kong section to be removed. Luffy1094 (talk) 08:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, the incident is ignited by him at one point.
- СлаваУкраїні 08:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit extended-protected}}template. M.Bitton (talk) 12:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Filmography
Add Filmography - messi's World Cup Rise of the Legend apple tv series 210.16.85.202 (talk) 18:18, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2024
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i would like to edit this due to noticing a false information Barny the lad (talk) 13:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. GrayStorm(Talk|Contributions) 15:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Messi changed or teams
Messi in 2023 changed to inter Miami because he declined to play with FC Bacelona for another year and also he rejected to play in Saudi Arabia Noogaiyea (talk) 20:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- The accurate parts of your statement are captured in Lionel Messi#Inter Miami. -2pou (talk) 20:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Split initiation
Black Kite, GiantSnowman, Guyrichtheman, Idiosincrático, Joseph2302, MatthewNewHouse, Muur, Oahid, PeeJay, Sadsadas, Stevie fae Scotland, 750h+, AirshipJungleman29, Jtbobwaysf, Mazewaxie, Yotrages, and AFC Vixen. I have began a draft since a consensus was came to. If you would like to edit it before we split the page, go ahead. Best, 750h+ (talk) 11:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Looks great to me! Great job! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 07:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Most Decorated Player
why does it still show Dani Alves as the most Decorated Player citing an old fifa article as reference? This was discussed before and changed but now again it has been changed. 49.204.141.218 (talk) 04:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Career split proposal
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lionel Messi → Lionel Messi and Career of Lionel Messi — A previous vote on splitting the "Club career" and "International career" sections from the page returned a consensus against the idea, in favour of reducing the content on the page instead to cut down the page's 23,000 word count to 15,000; a number above which WP:SIZERULE indicates a page that "almost certainly should be divided.
" However, a discussion above raised concerns about the reduction of content being possibly impractical, and indicated that support for splitting the page has significantly increased. Therefore, I am relitigating this issue. This time, the proposal is for a single page combining the two sections currently on this page. Like previously proposed, they shall be replaced here with more concise sections written in summary style.
Pinging Black Kite, GiantSnowman, Guyrichtheman, Idiosincrático, Joseph2302, MatthewNewHouse, Muur, Oahid, PeeJay, Sadsadas, and Stevie fae Scotland as participants in the previous vote. Also pinging 750h+, AirshipJungleman29, Jtbobwaysf, Mazewaxie, and Yotrages as participants in the discussion above. — AFC Vixen 🦊 07:06, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. — AFC Vixen 🦊 07:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment initially on reading it I didnt like the idea (was just some sort of knee-jerk) but upon a few hours consideration, I think this might allow us to summarize better in the article and then others can feel free to expand the career article. I do have a question, do you think the new article will be sufficiently small that other editors can feel free to enlarge it without it becoming too large right way, and we need to split again into international and club? Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 10:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I can't see a section in the article that doesn't need trimmed down. Splitting out the career sections might solve the overall size issue but it won't make the other sections easier/more manageable to read. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:18, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- this is a better first step - trim the trivial. GiantSnowman 18:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- I just picked a random section to look at, and I am not an expert on this subject. For example in this sub-section Lionel_Messi#2005–2008:_becoming_a_starting_eleven_player I dont see much that is trivial and could readily be trimmed. To make a meaningful change, we would need to be trimming like 50%+ per section, so I am confused how you would get there in this section. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think a lot of it is well written which, I think, makes it difficult to cut down. At least, I find that with my own writing anyway. It's easier to cut out or change something that you know could be better. Would it be worth listing at WP:GOCER? I don't know if this would fall strictly within their remit though. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 15:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Stevie fae Scotland and Jtbobwaysf: That may be because I had already trimmed it down. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- I just picked a random section to look at, and I am not an expert on this subject. For example in this sub-section Lionel_Messi#2005–2008:_becoming_a_starting_eleven_player I dont see much that is trivial and could readily be trimmed. To make a meaningful change, we would need to be trimming like 50%+ per section, so I am confused how you would get there in this section. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- this is a better first step - trim the trivial. GiantSnowman 18:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support it seems reasonable to me to trim down the career section in the main article, and move the current content to a new article where it can be further expanded. As it is now, the article is too long to read except for die-hard fans of Messi.
- Support I agree that the article is way too long, but Messi's career is too relevant to be trimmed enough to make it more accessible. Splitting is the best option in my opinion. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 11:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support This was my initial thought to the article split. Even if it's a little longer due to his career in both club and international, a timeline article makes sense to be longer. And with Messi being such a highly visited article, it makes sense to have the biggest moments touched on here, and more in depth in an easy to reach spot for those that want to see it. MatthewNewHouse (talk) 19:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- split Barcelona section from club career and 100 international goals section from international section , because it's important for people easy reach and reading 103.213.1.249 (talk) 05:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support I think this is the most logical solution at this point in time, as it both allows editors to expand details about the subject's career on the sub-article, and it resolves the TOOLONG issues on the main article (where we of course will still summarize). Jtbobwaysf (talk) 10:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support The two sections are the longest parts of the article and should definitely be split. 750h+ (talk) 17:17, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support The article has become too long and it would be best if more details about his career had their own article. I even think that there should be two articles, one talking about his club career and one for his international career. Sepguilherme (talk) 21:08, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Re User:Sepguilherme: probably not since the international career isn’t too long, and so both club and international could make for a good single page 750h+ (talk) 14:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support The same should be done for the Ronaldo's page. 750h+ (talk) 08:25, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support, but this has to be done for Cristiano Ronaldo too. Guyrichtheman (talk) 04:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Split Barcelona career of lionel messi alone 210.16.85.202 (talk) 05:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- Never, spliting into career is enough. Guyrichtheman (talk) 05:45, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- Split Barcelona career of lionel messi alone 210.16.85.202 (talk) 05:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support, 100%. This suggestion that was made the last time should have been supported too. The sections are well written (albeit overly detailed for one article hence the size issue) and well sourced, so retaining it in a sub article while also trimming it on this article works best I feel. It looks like this has a consensus on here, just needs someone to have a crack at it (will message AFC Vixen given they put forward the proposal for doing so). Nampa DC (talk) 21:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Updating goals at Inter Miami FC
Why the no of goals scored by Messi at Inter Miami isn't updated till now? Dipayanrao2003 (talk) 07:27, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 April 2024
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Change of sources: Source 69 is dead (https://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/10/23/3468661/how-messi-went-from-injury-prone-teenager-to-bionic-man). Change it to archived version https://web.archive.org/web/20190707062037/https://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/10/23/3468661/how-messi-went-from-injury-prone-teenager-to-bionic-man Willy james (talk) 07:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Done Thank you for your contribution! -2pou (talk) 15:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
"LM19" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect LM19 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 24 § LM19 until a consensus is reached. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 13:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
"Messimagician" listed at Redirects for discussion
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"Messidona" listed at Redirects for discussion
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The redirect The World's Top Goal Scorer 2011 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 24 § The World's Top Goal Scorer 2011 until a consensus is reached. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 13:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
New Note on CL honours section
There is now a note saying he didn't play in the final, on the honours section. This is really petty, and very biased. I haven't seen it used for any other player, on Wikipedia.
147.161.143.72 (talk) 08:15, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thats actually because the official UEFA site lists him with only 3 CL wins because of this reason https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0252-0e98c715bb79-dea77f56e2bd-1000--champions-league-final-records-and-statistics/ --FMSky (talk) 12:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with IP. Why did we add a note here and ignore other players?
- In my opinion, there is no reason to add a note that the player did not play in the final in the lead and honours sections, it should only be mentioned in the career section, specifically the section about that title.
- If UCL had only one match and it was also a final like the Super Cups then adding a note in the lead and honours sections would be appropriate, but UCL is a tournament. Trophies (and medals) are awarded to all players who participated in the tournament, not just those who played in the final. There are a lot of players who didn't play finals (not just UCL), but they played some matches of the tournament and all got medals. For example, Pele played two matches at the 1962 World Cup, he was injured in the match against Czechoslovakia, and was sidelined for the rest of the tournament. Of course, he did not play in the final that year. Annh07 (talk) 17:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0252-0e98c715bb79-dea77f56e2bd-1000--champions-league-final-records-and-statistics/ --FMSky (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is just a statistic of the players with the most UCL titles (including players who played finals and players who did not play finals), it has nothing to do with adding notes here. Did you see any notes in the article about the players mentioned in the source? And there are many other players in other tournaments, no one has notes in the article about them. If we kept this note, we would need to add similar notes in thousands of articles about other players who have missed one or more finals in their careers. Annh07 (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would generally agree that is is unnecessary. Messi is credited with winning the CL while with Barcelona. The significance of which finals he did and didn't appear in is significant to discussing the CL itself (such as if making a list as the UEFA website does where it may be significant to differentiate from "Winners of the Final", and "Winners of the Cup" as a team as they seem to be attempting to do) but of no particular significance to the player, particularly in the lead. Koncorde (talk) 13:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I also agree that it is unnecessary. Messi in a four time Champions League winner, no need to have a note because UEFA was misleading about it ONCE. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 17:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is their official statistics page, and he's not listed with 4 wins --FMSky (talk) 17:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- This has him with four. Pages 11 and 12. I mean UEFA there also credit Jonny Evans with a Champions League win. He was registered with Sunderland at the time of his "win". All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @FMSky. Here's what they wrote:
...while several other players have four titles to their name but only three final appearances:
- Lionel Messi: 2006*, 2009, 2011, 2015 (Barcelona)
- Gerard Piqué: 2008*, 2009, 2011, 2015 (Man United, Barcelona)
- Raphaël Varane: 2014, 2016*, 2017, 2018 (Real Madrid)
- Xavi Hernández: 2006*, 2009, 2011, 2015 (Barcelona)
* Did not play in the final- Messi, Piqué, Varane, Xavi all have 4 titles. Annh07 (talk) 18:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Okay then --FMSky (talk) 18:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned by Annh07, even the infamous UEFA page explicitly states that he is a four time winner. That note makes no sense. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 20:30, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Okay then --FMSky (talk) 18:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is their official statistics page, and he's not listed with 4 wins --FMSky (talk) 17:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- I also agree that it is unnecessary. Messi in a four time Champions League winner, no need to have a note because UEFA was misleading about it ONCE. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 17:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would generally agree that is is unnecessary. Messi is credited with winning the CL while with Barcelona. The significance of which finals he did and didn't appear in is significant to discussing the CL itself (such as if making a list as the UEFA website does where it may be significant to differentiate from "Winners of the Final", and "Winners of the Cup" as a team as they seem to be attempting to do) but of no particular significance to the player, particularly in the lead. Koncorde (talk) 13:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is just a statistic of the players with the most UCL titles (including players who played finals and players who did not play finals), it has nothing to do with adding notes here. Did you see any notes in the article about the players mentioned in the source? And there are many other players in other tournaments, no one has notes in the article about them. If we kept this note, we would need to add similar notes in thousands of articles about other players who have missed one or more finals in their careers. Annh07 (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0252-0e98c715bb79-dea77f56e2bd-1000--champions-league-final-records-and-statistics/ --FMSky (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
featured on the cover of eFootball
Featured on the cover but doesn't mention 43.224.38.167 (talk) 11:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Màs+ by messi drink
Messi launched new hydration drink 103.213.1.249 (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)