Talk:List of people with surname Carpenter

John T. Carpenter family

If either the author, book or if John T. Carpenter had an article on Wikipedia, then we could use this entry. However, without getting into much detail, Wikipedia lists are not lists of everything, but lists of things directly related to Wikipedia. These are the rules, I can give more details if you need them. This is why the entry was removed from the list page. Jrcrin001 (talk) 21:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

John T. Carpenter family, in the 1996 historical novel Mountain Majesties by Charles A. Strange

reference: ref name="CAS">Charles A. Strange: Mountain Majesties: a Historical Novel Set in Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, in the Decade of 1927-1937, J. F. Seiders Printers, Pottsville, Penna., 1996. ref>

List pages are NOT Disambiguation pages

Disambiguation pages#Given names or surnames "Articles only listing persons with a certain given name or surname, known as anthroponymy articles, are not disambiguation pages, and this Manual of Style does not apply to them."

Applying disambiguation rules to list articles is a violation of Wiki standards and disambig rules. Example: List of people with surname Spencer [edit] Shortcut: WP:APOLIST The Spencer (surname) has a good deal of content, so adding the full list of people with the surname would be excessive. There are enough persons with that surname to support its own list. List of people with surname Spencer is not a disambiguation page; it is a List. The same applies to this list and other similar lists.
Jrcrin001 (talk) 19:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

@Jrcrin001: I think it would help any visiting admin if you explained what the remaining problem is: as far as I can see there are now no links to disambiguation pages as you've decided to list all the names individually, so nothing further to debate. Or have I missed something? PamD 21:07, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#List_of_people_with_surname_Carpenter_is_an_anthroponomy_article_or_must_have_similar_names_re-directed_to_disambiguation_pages.3F

While I have fixed this article for now, they (the disambig editors and bots) keep coming back and stripping out the names in this article insisting on a double redirect. I have been told that I have been advised and that I am wrong to oppose such a thing. <sigh>

Jrcrin001 (talk) 21:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What's the point of this list?

There are surname lists arranged by topic, so that politicians are separated out from artist and sportspersons, etc, such as List of people with surname Jones. There are surname lists which use dab page links to offer access to more complete listings of people of a name (eg John Carpenter (disambiguation), which has about 5 names more than are in this difficult-to-maintain list), such as List of people with surname Smith. This list provides neither the subject approach nor use of links to dab pages for completeness. Which readers are helped by this list in its current format, I wonder? PamD 15:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pam,

This and other such lists are a break off of surname articles. Smaller anthroponomy articles (like Carpentier and Kennedy (surname)) do not need separate lists if they are small enough. Larger ones (like Lee (English surname) and Brown (surname)) break off parts into lists. See Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists and in particular WP:LISTPEOPLE.

The White (surname) article is an example of what the list editor had to do to direct the reader to disambig pages after names were stripped out of this anthroponomy article. Instead of ONE (1) separate list being made, the Disambig people created FOURTY ONE (41) more (disambiguation) pages in their zeal. This is true WP:Listcruft.

If you are researching a surname, you start on the surname page and should learn all about the surname. And then you are directed to NOTABLE articles on Wikipedia that cite such people, places and things based on that name. When an article such as Carpenter (surname) gets larger the people, places and things go to the respective list pages.

The rules for lists have been around for a long time on Wikipedia. Disambig pages came along later to redirect usually from a hat note. But, some how they (disambig page editors) are going wild in my opinion. They seem to ignore list rules to dominate with their interpretation of WP:INTDABLINK. As I mentioned before they often cause a problem by editing and setting up a situation where WP:INTDABLINK is needed. Then a dismbig bot or editor fixes the problem with multiple disambig pages. To me, their version violates the list rules and creates a lot of not-needed "cruft". Using the example of the White surname article, why have 42 article pages when just one (1) would work better?

Jrcrin001 (talk) 21:23, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't see your point: are you objecting to the existence of a disambiguation page like Adam White and saying that anyone looking for a person called "Adam White" should instead have to go to a page about Whites in general? (That's the only way I can understand your Using the example of the White surname article, why have 42 article pages when just one (1) would work better?). You're perhaps looking at the encyclopedia from the point of view of someone interested in researching the surname: far more readers will be looking for a specific person, perhaps knowing that their forename is "Adam".

As for your unhappiness with WP:INTDABLINK: you seem to confuse two things:

Some editors, such as Alafarge (talk · contribs) believe that the "List of persons with the surname Carpenter" page would be better / more useful if it linked to disambiguation pages rather than listing duplicated names. Unfortunately this editor did not understand or remember WP:INTDABLINK, and linked directly to disambiguation pages, which is incorrect. This was detected by the bot.

Other editors, alerted by the bot, edited the page to make it comply with WP:INTDABLINK. Not "their interpretation of", but the plain, easily-understood, section of WP:MOS. This is not a matter of imposing disambiguation-page style on a list. It is not an instance of disambiguation experts messing up your chosen style of list page. It is an instance of editors making a page compliant with a Wikipedia guideline. Those editors probably don't give a **** whether the list page links to dab pages or not, but if it does link to dab pages they want to see it to do so in the way set out by WP:INTDABLINK. PamD 21:43, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pam, As I have mentioned before, They can have their Disambig pages. I hate when they come into a list page and strip out names. If they want to make other disambig pages with that info - that is fine. If they do not remove the names and force the reader to yet other pages then I am happy. Thank you. Jrcrin001 (talk) 22:18, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of people with surname Brown which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]