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The Carneddau range is generally reckoned to include such outposts such as Creigiau Gleision to the East of Llyn Cowlyd, and Tal y fan in the north. Llyn Crafnant and Llyn Geirionydd would be regarded as lying on the eastern fringes of the massif, not Llyn Eigiau which is situated well into the range under Craig Eigiau (falling out of the broad shoulder north from the highest peak in the range, Carnedd Llewleyn. Incidentally, I owned and lived at Hafod y rhiw by Llyn Eigiau from 1965 to 1974. See “In the Carneddau” by J C Vetterlein at: http://www.spanglefish.com/springastlix/index.asp?pageid=234479