Talk:Mehdi Qoli Khan Javanshir

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Hi, how can Khurshud Beyim mother of Mehdi Qoli Khan and wife of Ibrahim Khali Khan be the daughter of Shahverdi Khan Javanshir and daughter of Javad Khan Janashir (son of Shahverdi)? That does not make any sense to me...

Thank you,

Arian Zarrinkafsch85.177.197.125 (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Unreasoned move

@Parishan:, why did you change the article's title to "Mehdiguli Khan Javanshir", without providing any reason nor any sources? - LouisAragon (talk) 15:57, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME. A random search on Google Books will show that "Mehdigulu Khan" yields many more results than "Mahdiqoli Khan". I understand you are relying on Iranica when proposing "Mahdiqoli Khan" but Iranica has its own very special spelling convention (inspired by the Romanization of Modern Persian) which does not necessarily reflect what is commonly accepted, like in the case with Ismail I and Nizami Ganjavi. Parishan (talk) 16:18, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

@Parishan:

• To attract the much-needed support from the local Muslims, General Gudovich, the new commander of the Caucasus, appointed Mahdīqolī Khan, the remaining son of Ebrāhīm, as khan of Qarābāḡ. Mahdīqolī served the Russians until 1822; (...) In 1836 Mahdīqolī returned to Qarābāḡ to claim his family property. -- Bournoutian, George A. (1997). "EBRĀHĪM ḴALĪL KHAN JAVĀNŠĪR". Encyclopaedia Iranica, Vol. VIII, Fasc. 1. pp. 71–73.
• (...) and members of his family, replacing him with another of his sons, Mahdi-qoli Khan. (p. 153; name also mentioned on pages 158, 161, 166) -- Tapper, Richard. (1997). Frontier Nomads of Iran: A Political and Social History of the Shahsevan. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0521583367
• With Mahdi Qoli Khan and Salim Khan acting as intermediaries (...) (p. 127; name also mentioned on pages 5-8, 12, 16, 31, 108-110, 119, 122-123, 126-127) -- Bournoutian, George A. (2004) Two Chronicles on the History of Karabagh. Mazda Publishers. ISBN 1-56859-179-9
• The Khan of Karabakh, Mahdi-qoli, fearing that the Armenian (...) -- Bournoutian, George A. (1996-1997) The Politics of Demography: Misuse of Sources on the Armenian population of Mountainous Karabakh in Journal of the Society for Armenian Studies (vol. 9). pp. 99-103

I'm aware of Iranica's rather inconsistent and often even odd way of transliterating stuff, but as we can see, its not just Iranica, but other reliable sources as well, who prefer this spelling.

"A random search on Google Books will show that "Mehdigulu Khan" yields many more results than "Mahdiqoli Khan"."

None of those "results" meet the WP:RS standards. Typing in "Mehdigulu Khan/Mehdi Gulu Khan" shows works by "Asgar Zeynalov" (PhD teacher of French literature, member of the Azerbaijan Union of Writers and Journalists), and Anar Isgenderli (an Armenian Genocide denier[1]), amongst others who are similarly non-RS. Same story for Google Scholar, where we can see a certain "Kamala Imranli-Lowe" using it (expert in Communication and Media, Cultural History, International Relations) as well as "Jamila Aliyeva" (Library and Information Science, Bachelor of Arts (BA)).[2]

- LouisAragon (talk) 16:49, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Absolutely indefensible. Regarding the RS issue, Mehdigulu looks more like just an ethnic tag.
—Rye-96 (talk) 10:19, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:, Bournoutian is the only source that should be taken into account according to your logic: however, the first instance of him using the spelling "Mahdi-Qoli" goes back to Iranica which formalises all future spelling in his works. If you are quoting Tapper, an anthropologist, why do you not equally quote Farideh Heyat, a fellow anthropologist working at the same institution as Tapper and who uses the spelling "Mehdigulu"? Parishan (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Tapper's not just "an anthropologist". He's is a professor in Anthropology and Sociology. Most importantly, he's also an associate member of the Centre for Iranian Studies.[3] In other words; completely reliable when dealing with historic figures such as MKJ. Why do you only mention a part of Tapper's credentials though? WP:GF assumed, but you know thats not a careful presentation of the verifiable facts, right?

So we have;

- 1 highly accredited professor in history, specializes in Caucasus/Iranian history (George Bournoutian)

- 1 professor in social studies/anthropology who's also an associate member of the Centre for Iranian Studies. Member of SOAS. (Richard Tapper)[4]

VERSUS

- 1 PhD anthropologist and writer, member of SOAS. (Farideh Heyat)[5]

Tough call.

- LouisAragon (talk) 19:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC)