|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Muslim monks
- 2 Old discussion
- 3 Caloyers?
- 4 Photo of Franciscan Friar
- 5 History of monasticism in Christianity: jerkus?
- 6 Petrus Thaborita
- 7 Custom of sending boys to monasteries
- 8 Not done yet, line-item notes
- 9 Sufism.
- 10 Vandalism
- 11 Eastern and Western traditions
Do they exist? It's been suggested but I haven't seen anything. Yasha126.96.36.199 20:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Asa: Abbey came in from the 1911 encyclopedia, and i've been linking it as [abbey|monastery] for some time now. 'Abbey' is not nearly so common a word as 'monastery', but there you have it. We had an entry. I was lazy. We also have nice things at monasticism. There's nothing specific for orthodox monasticism other than Pachomius so far - the rule of St. Basil is not high on my list of priorities, though I have done some on the Rule of St Benedict. --MichaelTinkler
- I guess if you want to do that, it's fine with me. I doubt there's any objections. -- user:zanimum
- Someone told me that I had to get it authorized first, so Ill just stick to manual disambiguation for the time being. Green Mountain 22:34, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I think Monk should have the article about religious monks and a page like Monk (disambiguation) should list the alternate meanings. The vast majority of the pages that link here are for the religious meaning, and even if those links are all fixed, in the future people are most likely to link here for the religious definition. Unless there's some great objection, I'll swap the pages around. --Minesweeper 06:07, Jan 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Done now. --Minesweeper 11:09, Jan 12, 2004 (UTC)
Gender issues with the term Monk
It is common in modern English to refer to Christian monks and nuns almost as separate entities. While this may be true for Roman Catholic monks and Nuns it is not true for the Eastern Orthodox Church. "Monastic" and "Monastery" are gender inclusive in this usage. The life of a male or female "Monk" is more or less identical. The early years of monasticism included many female monastics so it is somewhat misleading to refer only to the men of Egypt as going off and leading ascetic lives. St Mary of Egypt is a prime example of a female ascetic. From the Orthodox point of view, the monastic life(whether male or female) has little or nothing to do with running schools, hospitals, or orphanages; but rather the dedicated spiritual ascetic life of prayer, fasting, and labor. Phiddipus 13:13, 11 Nov 2004 (PST)
This article is well-written but focuses almost exclusively on monks in the Christian religion. Information about Buddhist monks, who pre-dated Christian monks by centuries, appears only in links and in an almost off-hand remark at the end about the martial arts. It could be that this article was written by a Christian who lacks information and insight into other religions. As Mark Twain said, humans have "the true religion...several of them." I think this article needs to be substantially rewritten in order to more evenly incorporate monks in non-Christian religions, especially Buddhism. Such a rewrite would require editing out some detail about Christian monks, if the article length is not to change. Just because the word "monk" orginated in Christianity does not mean that the phenomenon described is a mostly Christian one. I could write about non-Christian monks, but I am not sure I am the best candidate for that task. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gfisch99 (talk • contribs) 12:54, January 7, 2005
Well, there is an article for buddhist monks while there is no article for catholic monks, so it seems to be a good idea to just keep a link for buddhist monks and that paragraph of information. Zulu, King Of The Dwarf People 20:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
To the person who is complaining that the subject focuses exclusively on Christian monks he should think about contributing to adding any info he desires instead of bickering that the 'person' who wrote the text is not cultured enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 09:36, June 21, 2006
Other Christian monks
From this article, one might assume that monasticism is peculiar to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox chistendom. There are, of course, Anglican and Lutheran monks. It should probably also be noted that currently both the Roman Catholic archbishop of Boston and the Episcopal (Anglican) bishop of Massachusetts are monks. I expect this is the first time in Western christendom that one city has two monastic bishops. rockhopper10r 05:26, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The link onto Nitria unfortunately goes to the one in Moravia, not to the Nitrian desert (which seems to lack an article at all). Maybe someone better versed in these matters could compose a stub at least? --Oop 21:21, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
The Shaolin temple does not fit the dictonary term for militant, 'A fighting, warring, or aggressive person or party.' The teachings of Shaolinquan are those of self defense and never being an aggressor in combat. Plan to write an entire section on different sects of Buddhist monks, concentrating more on the teachings of bodhisattva and less on the 'kung fu' pop culture images. To Gfisch99, who mentioned writing the article.. let's get our collaborating shoes on and see what we can do! --Aika 18:45, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
Monks in the middle ages - Consider Deleting
I think we should deleting this section (or if not, seriously revising). It is written in very simplistic terms that realistically apply to only the Hollywood stereotype of a medieval European Catholic monk. Truth be told there were numerous RC orders of monks as is stated earlier in the article. Their habits were different, the shapes of their monasteries were different, and the way they did things was different. Some grew their own food while many owned land and were supported by the peasantry. Monasticism didn’t start in the middle ages nor were Roman Catholic monks all there were. Eastern Orthodox Christianity had countless monasteries with hundreds of thousands of monks (perhaps even millions) spread across eastern Europe, the middle east, the Balkans, Greece, Africa, and Asia to whom this section has little or no relevancy at all.
Two agreements and I will delete it.--Phiddipus 04:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree it should be seriously revised. I was looking for information about the different Catholic monastic orders and how they evolved and this was a very unhelpful section and even I know that not all monks ate in silence and not all monasteries were shaped liked crosses. I mean, come on! 184.108.40.206 18:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)sarah
Female Monks in Buddhism
I do not believe the comment about female monks needing to reincarnate as a male is accurate. Or at least not close to being wholly accurate. Firstly it is cited as a mahayana belief, though mahayana orders are much more open to nuns or female monks than the theravada - who are more likely to hold this belief. Secondly, I know for a fact that several orders initiate both male and females as monks (not nuns) and the two are considered equal. There is plenty of scriptual precedent for this. One such order is The Order of Buddhist Contemplatives, whose founder was a female, and was trained by the Abbot of Tokyo.
I would like to see this statement correctly clarified if it is to remain in the article
Lostsocks 18:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Why does the section on Eastern Orthodox monks give Caloyers as the main article? That article is on a particular group of Greek monks, and not Orthodox monks in general. I am going to get rid of it unless someone has a problem with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:55, February 13, 2007
Photo of Franciscan Friar
Technically speaking a Franciscan friar is not a monk, as mendicant friars do not usually live alone or are solitary. I suggest a removal of this photo, and perhaps replaced with a Benedictine or a Jesuit. Eedo Bee 15:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am not a Roman Catholic, but it seems to me that if Franciscans take a vow of poverty and celebacy, and devote their lives to God, then whether they live alone or in community, they still can be considered monks. They wear a habit and have a noviciate period. --Phiddipus 23:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- They're still not monks, they're mendicant friars. The two are distinct, as they don't live alone. Eedo Bee 10:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Some monks live alone, some live in community. The same can be said of Friars. Hermits and Anchorites live alone, cenobites live together under a common roof (Monastery) - all are considered to be monks. I don't think this is enough of a distinction. Is there anything else which distinguishes them from Monks?--Phiddipus 15:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Mendicant Friars depend wholly on contributions and charity for living costs, whereas Monks can own property an land. That is the main distinction and usually why Friars are more in the open than monks, who do not have to get by on other people's support. Eedo Bee 16:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
History of monasticism in Christianity: jerkus?
>Christian monasticism drew its origin from the jerkus of the Prophet Elias and John the Baptist
There doesn't appear to be such a word as "jerkus."
I've added the name of Petrus Tahborita here. He was a well-known Frisian monk who wrote about the freedom fighter Pier Gerlofs Donia, and many other historiacl persons, doing a great job, so well that many historians today ow him something. -The Bold Guy- 14:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Custom of sending boys to monasteries
"In Thailand, it is common for boys to spend some time living as a monk in a monastery. Most stay for only a few years and then leave, but a number continue on in the ascetic life for the rest of their lives."
Why just Thailand? This is the practice in many South-East Asian countries. Also, there are a lot of general words ("it is common" "most" "a number"). I think it needs sourcing. Rai27 10:28, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Not done yet, line-item notes
This is one of those interesting and information-packed articles that developed without any footnotes. I believe the policy is to put them in. The sequence takes the form: idea 1, note 1; idea 2, note 2, etc. I think when someone starts that process they will find that some of these long sections are duplicated by their main articles. I refrain for the moment from putting in the appropriate tag and suggest that someone start. Chances are that will lead to a rewrite. You might be afraid to take on so many monks at once. This however is Wikipedia not the sacred scriptures. Thanks.Dave (talk) 22:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Though I'm aware that Sufis aren't required to take a vow of chastity, other aspects of their tradition seem to have strong parallels with Christian and, perhaps even moreso, Buddhist monasticism. I could research the matter further myself but the perspective of a Sufi or at least a Muslim intimately acquainted with Sufism would probably be vastly more beneficial to this article. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 05:56, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
This page seems to be a magnet for small acts of vandalism ... again and again ... Would this page then be a good candidate for protection (that is, only registered users may edit)? Devadaru (talk) 17:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
- I repeat, vandalism is not stopping. Just patiently revert and revert? Or put up some protection?...Devadaru (talk) 20:18, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Eastern and Western traditions
Orthodox monastics separate themselves from the world in order to pray unceasingly for the world. They do not, in general, have as their primary purpose the running of social services, as is common in Western Christianity, but instead are concerned with attaining theosis, or union with God. [...] nor do they have Rules in the same sense as the Rule of St. Benedict. Rather, Eastern monastics study and draw inspiration from the writings of the Desert Fathers as well as other Church Fathers.
Well: That may be all a fine description of the East, but I wonder whether not some feelings, I don't want to say anti-Western, but somewhat looking-down-to-the-Westerners feeling could be traced behind such statements. First of all, if you say that the primary object even of social service orders such as the School Sisters of Notre Dame is running social service, that amounts to an insult in my view. Of course, an Easterner may critizise that the West may perceive these orders too much as social service overlooking they are actually orders, or maybe inquire whether the orders themselves are, in practice, as monastic as they are in their Rule, but I think it is wrong that they have social service as primary purpose. Besides, I don't know about the East but in the West the distinction between a monk and a nun is actually important. Most of the religious are nuns but in the classical orders, I think it is the other way round. In what concerns the Desert Fathers: Of course an incident is no general rule but I remember a private discussion with a monk of St. Benedict's Order itself, and he did not quote the Rule of St. Benedict but he did appeal to the Desert Fathers in explaining aspects of Christian life. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 21:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think you read too much into the text you quoted. It does not seem to me like the original contributor was trying to besmirch Western Christianity (or the Roman Catholic Church, more particularly). Rather, that person was trying to draw a general distinction between the activities of typical Western and Eastern monks. It is clear that some monks in both traditions are involved in running social services, just as some monks in both traditions are reclusive. The point the contributor was making is that - "on average", if you will - the Orthodox monks tend to focus more on reclusive prayer and work than on interactions with the secular world. I do not see anything insulting or underhanded about that statement. If anything it overly simplifies the work of Orthodox monks. Many of them specialize in things like iconography and religious writing, while there can be no doubt about the extent of interaction by bishops with the secular world. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 01:04, 1 April 2013 (UTC)