- This article was nominated for deletion on August 28, 2002. The outcome of the discussion was keep. See discussion
I don't know why but I'm very uncomfortable with this assertion:
"Thus, the mouthpiece, attached to its instrument, is a means of extending the human vocal power."
"Vocal" is of the voice, right? When I play, I don't feel as if I am doing something even faintly vocal. Yes, it is an extension of the expressive power of - what, the upper body or something?, I don't know - but I can't see it as being vocally related in any meaningful way. I do sing as well as play. I am not unaware of the connection: I just don't think this sentence quite fits.
I am going to change it to something which will probably be less elegantly worded but which I feel is closer to correct. I would welcome further dicusssion. No offense is intended to other authors of this article.
Nevilley 17:50 Nov 10, 2002 (UTC)
- I've never played a wind instrument of any kind (well, not seriously), but I'm sure you're right - "vocal" suggests to me "vocal chords" or an act akin to singing, both of which have nothing to do with playing wind instruments. You vibrate your lips or you blow on something and make it vibrate, and there it is. Only with kazoos are you "extending the human vocal power", but kazoos don't have mouthpieces anyway, so that's irrelevant. I think Ortolan, who wrote most of the article, is aware that it's not perfect, so I wouldn't worry about upsetting anyone - go ahead and fix it (in fact, could that sentence just be removed altogether?). --Camembert
- Make it "human expressive power"? I added a lot to this page off the top of my head because it was threatened with being deleted and I was trying to get at the important contributions the mouthpiece makes which were utterly unappreciated by the delete-stub police. Please change at will. I did go in and link it to all the instances of "mouthpiece" that I could find in the 'pedia. As for the rest, I make no claim for the accuracy of the piece and in fact wrote Camembert after his/her brilliant improvements to, I believe, wind instruments suggesting that this page needed a tuneup, if you'll pardon the pun. It is definitely less worthy than embouchure, its companion piece. (I wrote most of kazoo, too, but I actually play that instrument.)
- However, to defend myself slightly, it seems clear to me that every jazz saxophone player has a different "sound", from Lester Young's breathiness to Earl Bostic's cut-though-the-muck edginess, to your favorite player's individual characteristics. Even among the honkers, Arnett Cobb and Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis sound nothing like each other, or like Big Jay McNeeley. Indeed, the same goes for trumpet players, Henry "Red" Allen versus Louis Armstrong or Dizzy versus Miles. How is this done if it isn't in some way "singing" to play a wind instrument? I don't play one, but I sure do love the great variations in players jazz and associated arts. Ortolan88
- Ah, now you're asking tricky questions! I don't know how you get a particular "sound" as a wind player, but I'm fairly (fairly) sure that the player doesn't actually "sing" in a literal sense while he/she is playing (and by "singing" I mean "vibrating his/her vocal chords in a tuneful manner"). It is akin to singing in a way, yes, but the physical mechanism going on is different, I think. I mean, as a violinist, I know that each violin player can have a similarly unique sound, but there's clearly nothing literally "vocal" going on there. Still, the question of just how you do get a unique sound out of what is basically a hollow metal stick with a bit of reed stuck on the end is an intriguing one: I'll ask my sax playing friend about what is causing this difference - I'm sure she'll be able to enlighten us.
Gotcha anyway! Ortolan88
- I admit it: flattery gets you everywhere ;) I'll work on it some more some day. --Camembert
- I like "extending the expressive power of the upper body". Arnett Cobb was in an automobile accident many years ago and hobbles on crutches, but he was the man when he played. Camembert sounds feminine to me. If I knew for sure, I would know how best to flatter you. I can do it with either sex, but not as a Turing test. Ortolan88
- I was steered to the violin as a second instrument, and even at Grade 7 I still sounded like a cat being neutered. :-) -- Tarquin
- You mean it's not meant to sound like that? Heck, maybe I should start taking lessons again... (Grade 6 was as far as I got with the piano, by the way - good enough to know I was no good :) --Camembert
As I understand it, this should be a disambiguation page. These are all different objects which happen to be referred to by the same word.Special-T 15:12, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed, and as no one has disagreed, I'll go ahead and do it. -- Rsholmes 17:39, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, pardner, it looks like we got us some disambiguation cleanup to do.Special-T 03:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, in the course of cleaning up, I have un-linked some uses of the word 'mouthpiece' when they merely indicate 'the piece that you put in or on your mouth'. A link to this page would seem to be meaningless in those cases. Special-T 19:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
"Mouthpiece" may also be a slang term for a lawyer. The idea being the lawyer does the talking for you in court. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:28, 30 August 2013 (UTC)