Talk:Mr. He's jade

Four character idiom

The story of the He Shi Bi is the origin of a number of Chinese idiomatic phrases, if I recall. I'm unsure if inclusion within this article is necessary though. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Help wanted

I've been working on revising this article and could use some assistance. After starting Marquis of Sui's pearl I had lots of Bian He's bi references that need cutting down. Two initial questions are the preferred title and organization. Only Sinophones using en.wikipedia can understand the present "he Shi Bi" title. What would be more meaningful, something like "Jade disk of Mr. He" or "Mr. He's jade disk"? The present sections are 1 Discovery, 2 "Returning the Jade Intact to Zhao", and 3 Imperial seal; and I've currently got 1 Terminology and 2 Early textual references with seven subsections. Perhaps we could reorganize into 1 Terminology, 2 Legends (with Discovery, etc.), 3 History (with Returning Intact, Imperial seal, etc.), and Literature? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Keahapana (talk) 00:50, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

I have heard the story of the finding of the jade piece (I'm trying to remember references). However, shi He seems to have found a lump of jade in a raw form, which later became worked into a disk (or "disc"). Therefor, it was never his jade disk? (Plus he, He, seems to have thought it the inherent property of his Majesty?) "Mister He's jade"? "The jade of Mister He"? Now that I think about it, I think I read about this in a translation of Han Fei, that I don't seem to happen to have with me right now. Maybe it should be "Han Fei's jade disk"? Also, I think the term bi is appropriate, since "jade disk" is perhaps no less obscure than "jade bi". Maybe "Han Fei's jade bi"? Plus the coincidence of the name of Mister He and the English third person masculine objective pronoun which may be used to refer to him is a bit infelicitous.... Dcattell (talk) 22:44, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Anyway, the current article seems to focus on an embedded myth in the work of a certain Legalist wishing to prove how all under heaven is rightfully due to the monarch, combined with explaining the phrase「和氏璧」. This is a difficult start. Yours looks better. Then, there is historical evidence of this legendary object, which then disappeared? Exciting...! Dcattell (talk) 23:49, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your ideas. Unquestionably infelicitous, we're providing potential puns and laughs for WP readers unfamiliar with Chinese romanizations, W-G Ho ('ho, ho ho ho) and pinyin He (he, hee hee hee). Check out the redirect page for Mr. Ho. I agree that average readers are unlikely to understand bi or "jade-disk", and "Mr. He's jade" (which is Burton Watson's 1967 Hanfeizi translation "Mr. He's jade") is probably best. What do you think? I've already got 6,000+ words roughed out and will add several more refs before trying to rearrange the sections. Also, I scanned some of my books, which might be useful for you. Please email me through WP for details. Keahapana (talk) 01:22, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

"Mister He's jade" is the best I can think of, now, especially with authority of Waley. Anyway, if someone comes up with a better idea, it can always be revised. Dcattell (talk) 16:44, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Belatedly copied from my talk page

"Probably a currently consensus of the name has been made for now but could you revert to the abridgement and clarification that I have made, the current article is a bag of quotations and trivial anecdotes that is difficult to comprehend the subject. Sgnpkd (talk) 04:09, 30 May 2019 (UTC)" Keahapana (talk) 22:05, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Name change

和氏 means Clan He, or the He Lineage. Mr or Mister is an English concept to call men. So it's not an appropriate translation of the title. I suggest name change to Clan He's jade, or simply use the Chinese term Heshibi. Sgnpkd (talk) 23:27, 15 June 2021 (UTC)