Talk:Murom

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Birthplace of Ilya Muromets

I've changed the assertion that Murom is the birthplace of Ilya Muromets as it is, in fact, one of two places historians have identified as being his birthplace: Морівськ in Ukraine, or this Murom (per the article on Ilya Muromets in Russian Wikipedia). The tendency is, actually, towards Kozelets Raion in the Chernihiv Oblast due to proximity to Kiev and other factors. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fictional ≠ real character

The Russian Wikipedia gives several explanations but seems to credibly assert the town of Murom to be the birthplace:

"Некоторые историки XIX века высказывали предположение[13][14][15], что его малой родиной мог быть Карачев (Брянская область) и расположенный не так далеко от него город Моровийск на Черниговщине (современное село Моровск Козелецкого района Черниговской области). Данное заключение основывается на возможности происхождения в народном эпосе образа Ильи Муромца от преподобного киевского инока Илии Печерского, а также на том, что в первых упоминаниях о богатыре на территории южной Руси, его называли не Муромцем, а Моровлином, Муравлениным[16]. Однако, Моровийск, несмотря на близость к Киеву, впервые упомнянут в XII веке и был весьма невелик[17], тогда как Муром, впервые упомянутый под 862 годом[18], в период жизни Илии Печерского был относительно крупным городом. Кроме того, обсуждая это предположение, А. И. Соболевский отмечает, что Муром был известен в Киеве под искажённым названием Моров, что могло привести к упоминанию Ильи Муромца как «Моровца» в южнорусском фольклоре[19]."

However, with Ilya Muromets being a fictional character, the possible birthplace of the historical figure that probably served as his prototype is irrelevant. The fictional figure is still believed to be born near the town of Murom. A "more likely candidate for his birthplace" would therefore aplly to Ilya Pechersky. It could be discussed, however, if Murom being his birthplace wasn't originally the case but that topic shouldn't be part of this article about the town of Murom.

77.182.14.38 (talk) 09:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect that any allusion to Ilya Muromets has been avoided precisely because he is deemed to be fictional, as is attested to in both Russian and Ukrainian Wikipedia. There is a page on him in English Wikipedia which would link here but, as you say, it is about mythological characters, therefore WP:OFFTOPIC for an article of what is known of and ancient city. Iryna Harpy (talk) 07:47, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]