Talk:Operation Himmler/Archive 1

Archive 1

German version [interwiki]?

There is no German version or there is no link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.88.220.21 (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Concentration camps

How was it possible to use prisoners from concentration camps in staged attacks against German interests in 1939? Nathraq 22:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Nazi Germany began operating concentration camps prior to World War 2. By 1939, six large camps were operational. - Eron^Talk 13:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Hoax?

It seems that this article is a hoax. The sources in this article do not mention an "Operation Himmler". Where are the primary sources? Nowowiejski (talk) 22:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, were such false flag incidents really necessary as a cause for war in 1939? The Polish government at that time had the intention to war with Germany, as their rejection of any compromise over Danzig showed. Incidents against the German speaking minority in Poland went on for months prior to September 1939. Nowowiejski (talk) 22:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Primary sources are scarce, I guess, as the SS operations were supposed to be secret and undocumented. German Wikipedia does not cover these operations very well, see de:Unternehmen Tannenberg. -- Matthead  Discuß   23:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

B-class

I need a graph or picture or chart or table or something on a visual spectrum to up the class from Start to B. Otherwise, all seems to be in good check. Well Done. TomStar81 (Talk) 09:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Russia?

What was Russia's take on this "Polish invasion" Didn't they initially stay inactive or even join the German story of things and invade from the other side as well before Germany pressed into Russia as well? (A potential short 'pact of steel') ??? 65.102.7.165 (talk) 03:13, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes here it is, someone please mention this: Soviet invasion of Poland here at the Operation Himmler article; if we are to show that France and England opposed Germany in this operation we should show that Russia abetted it for neutrality purposes. 65.102.7.165 (talk) 03:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

More successful in Germany

We need sources to show that this was successful in Germany. How about post-war? Did people after the war still believe Poland attacked first? Is this an argument used today, even if by the neo-Nazi fringe? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 05:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Inside Germany during the war, the majority of the general public had little access to alternative sources of information... AnonMoos (talk) 09:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Would be good to find a reference for that in relevance to this event. How long till people started to question the official line Before the end of the war? After? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 16:49, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I remember reading something in Shirer's semi-popular Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, but I don't have a specific reference. Probably many unsophisticated individuals believed the propaganda, while many of those who were slightly more sophisticated had some doubts about the official story, but unfortunately still believed that either way the Poles were getting what they deserved for obstructing Germany's national greatness... AnonMoos (talk) 21:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

It would be nice if we could expand the article. Here is a ref that states that few believed in this propaganda, as it seemed improbable that Germany was able to mount such a large scale attack scant half day after the purposed "Polish aggression". It is unclear, however, if that refers to world in general or the German public. The ref in question goes to Breuer (1988), The Secret War with Germany, p.5-8, sadly, this one offers snippet view only ([1]) making it useless for online research. There is a lot of sources on Nazi propaganda, but I don't have time to research it thoughtfully ATM to see if they contain a more detailed analysis of the success (or failure) of the Operation Himmler and the Gleiwitz incident. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 18:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Since we cannot find cites for it, I am moving the unref claim here.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 18:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

"but might have had more contemporary success in Germany itself, resulting in historical controversies and disputes (some continuing to this day)."

I had removed this before and someone put it back in. So, I agree with removal. Kierzek (talk) 18:12, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

It might have been me - I was waiting for anybody to find sources. But as this is obviously not happening... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 20:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Naujocks is bollocks

The Naujocks testimony, which is the base for the myth the article deals with, is false: http://archive.org/details/GleiwitzVorfall --41.151.213.199 (talk) 12:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Further Reading

Are the two Polish articles relevant? I got the first one and ran it through Google Translate. It doesn't seem to be about the events of 31 August 1939. My library has no access to the second article. Can somebody who understands Polish please check if these references are relevant to Operation Himmler? Agnerf (talk) 10:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Schadewaldt

One of the references in this article reads:

For an example of Nazi propaganda document discussing "Polish atrocities against the German people", see The Polish Atrocities Against the German Minority in Poland Compiled by Hans Schadewaldt (Berlin: German Foreign Office, 1940) pp. 35-54, cases 1 - 15. signed testimony of Herbert Matthes, Bromberg furniture maker

Hans Schadewaldt is a name which at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Schadewaldt appears to describe a doctor who is mentioned at List_of_members_of_the_European_Academy_of_Sciences_and_Arts#II_–_Medicine

Are we able to determine whether or not these were different individuals? Someone born in 1923 would only be 17 years old in 1940 so it seems unlikely that they could've written a propaganda book, but if we good distinguish Hans Schadewaldt (doctor) and Hans Schadewaldt (author) via identifying the birth/death date of the latter it could be useful. ScratchMarshall (talk) 18:23, 20 June 2018 (UTC)