Talk:Jats

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Article history

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Jats was copied or moved into Jat with this edit on 17 July 2005. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

No consensus, 4 October 2019, from Jat people to Jat.
Not moved, 8 April 2020, from Jat people to Jat (people).
Moved, 24 May 2022, from Jat people to Jats.

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 April 2024[edit]

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Add Sihag to the List of Jat Clans : https://www.jatland.com/home/Sihag https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11524243 There have been prominent politicians(India's prime minister)/sportspersons(Indian cricket team)/ chief of armed forces from this clan. BhupendraSiyag (talk) 11:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done The sources you provided aren't reliable. One of them is a mirror of this English Wikipedia page, and the other is a wiki, which isn't considered reliable since anyone can edit information on it. However, I managed to find a source that backs up your addition, so I've included it in the article. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

add VP of India Jagdeep Dhankhar[edit]

Hi, can someone please add current Vice President of India Jagdeep Dhankhar as notable Jat poltician along with Chaudhary Charan Singh and Chaudhary Devi Lal under the section Republic of India. Thanks. Amitdabas123 (talk) 12:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Canada as a region with a significant population[edit]

There are around 1 million people with Jat ancestry in Canada. 2605:8D80:405:6CC0:CEA:E8E1:502A:5F0D (talk) 03:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 June 2024[edit]

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Add Sodhi as a Jat name Singhpbx1 (talk) 18:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think, he's saying that Add Sodhi in Clan List of Jats. But without reliable sources, it wouldn't be processed.

Thanks & Regards Super Dud (talk) 05:30, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2024[edit]

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Missing “thind” in the clan section. As said here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thind 2001:569:7779:5000:6DC7:993F:2141:F3BC (talk) 23:23, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done – DreamRimmer (talk) 11:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thx 2001:569:7779:5000:CC03:3911:7466:C79C (talk) 04:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t see it, idk why 2001:569:7779:5000:CC03:3911:7466:C79C (talk) 04:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source, you've provided isn't reliable at all, provide us a verifiable source so that we can proceed with your statement. Super Dud (talk) 05:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2024[edit]

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"Jats are descendants of Ham" as referenced in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:HMElliotHistVol1.djvu/138#cite_note-1 Sachidananda Hullahalli (talk) 11:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edit[edit]

C1MM, you added a large amount of undiscussed content which has many WP:UNDUE, poorly-sourced, and misrepresented details. Your bold edit has been reverted twice already. So please propose your changes here if you must and develop WP:Consensus. Here is the summary of problems with your edit:

Let's start with your addition/source about the Jaths of Kutch. They don't belong to this article, as the source cited by you itself says that Jaths of Kutch, i.e. Daneta, Fakirani and Garasia, are distinct from the subject of this article, although they might have originated from a single group. It even uses separate spellings to distinguish them, namely "Jats" for the subjects of this article and "Jatts" for the Jaths of Kutch. Indeed, I have read multiple sources in the past that distinguish Kutch Jaths^[1] or their divisions^[2] from the subject of this article, although I could recall only two such sources at the moment. The source's author, who is not a historian, states about "Jatt pastoralists" that "some historians suggest that they were originally a single group" which eventually "crystallised into distinct ethnic groups". Note that, to support her origin-related claim about Jaths, which doesn't belong here anyway, she cites/quotes Irfan Habib's 1971 conference paper, where he doesn't even mention Kutch anywhere. So this is a historical fringe claim about Kutch Jaths by a non-historian which isn't supported by historians. In any case, such a historical fringe claim will require coverage in both tertiary scholarship (to meet WP:DUE and WP:TERTIARY) and secondary scholarship by historians (to meet WP:SCHOLARSHIP and WP:HISTAR) for it to be mentioned anywhere, let alone this article.

Second, the source cited by you to show that majority of Jats are Muslim explicitly mentions the religion-wise break-up of Jats as follows: 47% Hindus, 33% Muslims, and 20% Sikhs.^[3] The author does mention two 1980s "crude estimates" of the total Jat population without saying which one of them is accurate or what they tell about the religion-wise break-up.^[4] But he is very clear about their distribution among the religions. So you cannot WP:SYNTHESIS that source to refute its explicit claim!

Third, newspapers and conference papers are neither WP:DUE (see WP:TERTIARY) nor reliable (see WP:SCHOLARSHIP and WP:HISTAR) for caste/history-related claims. So the content based on those sources is unacceptable here unless you can replace them with mainstream secondary and tertiary scholarship.

Fourth, the details from Richard Eaton can be summarised here with attribution, although I have yet to check their coverage in tertiary scholarship about Jats. Note that Eaton's sources like this one seem like the updated versions of the source cited by you. So I will check what his latest sources mention about Jats and how his findings are summarised in the tertiary scholarship. That will help us to summarise his views here. Similarly, the details about the impact of Jats in Pakistani politics seem fine, although they need to be a bit neutral worded. I will add those or similar details after checking relevant summaries in some mainstream scholarly sources, especially the introductory ones. But you will need to wait for some days. If you want to do that quickly, please provide such tertiary scholarship by yourself.

Finally, there are thousands of pages written in both non-scholarly sources and peer-reviewed scholarly sources about the subject of this article. But only WP:DUE content is added here. Otherwise, there would have been hundreds of versions of this article.

PS: Although I am mostly sure that the editor won't edit war any more, I am pinging admin Abecedare just in case. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Unnithan-Kumar, Maya (1997). Identity, Gender, and Poverty: New Perspectives on Caste and Tribe in Rajasthan. Berghahn Books. p. 11. ISBN 978-1-57181-918-5. In the following text, I use the word jath as it was pronounced by the Girasia, in reference to their localised patrilineage. I use the spelling jath to distinguish it from 'Jat', a dominant community of farmers in Rajasthan, ...
^ Srivastava, Shilpi; et al. (2022) [2021]. "Between the Market and Climate Change: Uncertainty and Transformation in Kutch". In Mehta, Lyla; Adam, Hans Nicolai; Srivastava, Shilpi (eds.). The Politics of Climate Change and Uncertainty in India. Routledge. p. 88. ISBN 978-1-003-25758-5. Jimlivand, a hamlet of approximately 35 families, is a compact community of Fakirani Jats (diferent from the Jats of Northern India), a sect infuenced by the Suf tradition, who have settled in various hamlets across the Gujarat coast (Soneji 2017). They claim their ancestral links to the Halaf region in Iran (Bharwada and Mahajan 2007). Although fshing is one of the predominant livelihoods in the community, Jimlivand's identity is closely linked to camel and cattle-rearing, that is, being maldharis. However, the residents have given up on camel breeding and rearing and now keep bufaloes instead.
^ Lodrick, Deryck O. (2009). "JATS". In Gallagher, Timothy L.; Hobby, Jeneen (eds.). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life. Volume 3: Asia & Oceania (2nd ed.). Gale. p. 419. ISBN 978-1414448916. Jats may be Hindu, Muslim, or Sikh by religion. Hindu Jats (47% of all Jats) ... Jats in the Indian Punjab are mostly Sikh (c. 20% of Jats), though they preserve many Hindu elements in their ritual life. The tradition of pir (saint) worship is widespread among Muslim Jats (c. 33%), who belong mainly to the Sunni sect of Islam.
^ Lodrick, Deryck O. (2009). "JATS". In Gallagher, Timothy L.; Hobby, Jeneen (eds.). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life. Volume 3: Asia & Oceania (2nd ed.). Gale. pp. 418–419. ISBN 978-1414448916. There is no accurate data available concerning the number of Jats in South Asia. In the late 1980s, the Jat populations of India and Pakistan were estimated at 8 million and 13 million, respectively. Assuming these initial estimates are accurate, and that growth rates for the Jat communities has approximated that for their respective countries, Jats in India must number around 12 million, and in Pakistan over 21 million, for a total Jat population of over 33 million. However, some estimates place the Jat population in 1988 at 31 million, which would place their current population at around 43 million. At best, these are crude estimates.

NitinMlk (talk) 21:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Unnithan-1] Unnithan-Kumar, Maya (1997). Identity, Gender, and Poverty: New Perspectives on Caste and Tribe in Rajasthan. Berghahn Books. p. 11. ISBN 978-1-57181-918-5. In the following text, I use the word jath as it was pronounced by the Girasia, in reference to their localised patrilineage. I use the spelling jath to distinguish it from 'Jat', a dominant community of farmers in Rajasthan, ...

[Srivastava-2] Srivastava, Shilpi; et al. (2022) [2021]. "Between the Market and Climate Change: Uncertainty and Transformation in Kutch". In Mehta, Lyla; Adam, Hans Nicolai; Srivastava, Shilpi (eds.). The Politics of Climate Change and Uncertainty in India. Routledge. p. 88. ISBN 978-1-003-25758-5. Jimlivand, a hamlet of approximately 35 families, is a compact community of Fakirani Jats (diferent from the Jats of Northern India), a sect infuenced by the Suf tradition, who have settled in various hamlets across the Gujarat coast (Soneji 2017). They claim their ancestral links to the Halaf region in Iran (Bharwada and Mahajan 2007). Although fshing is one of the predominant livelihoods in the community, Jimlivand's identity is closely linked to camel and cattle-rearing, that is, being maldharis. However, the residents have given up on camel breeding and rearing and now keep bufaloes instead.

[Lodrick-3] Lodrick, Deryck O. (2009). "JATS". In Gallagher, Timothy L.; Hobby, Jeneen (eds.). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life. Volume 3: Asia & Oceania (2nd ed.). Gale. p. 419. ISBN 978-1414448916. Jats may be Hindu, Muslim, or Sikh by religion. Hindu Jats (47% of all Jats) ... Jats in the Indian Punjab are mostly Sikh (c. 20% of Jats), though they preserve many Hindu elements in their ritual life. The tradition of pir (saint) worship is widespread among Muslim Jats (c. 33%), who belong mainly to the Sunni sect of Islam.

[Lodrick1-4] Lodrick, Deryck O. (2009). "JATS". In Gallagher, Timothy L.; Hobby, Jeneen (eds.). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life. Volume 3: Asia & Oceania (2nd ed.). Gale. pp. 418–419. ISBN 978-1414448916. There is no accurate data available concerning the number of Jats in South Asia. In the late 1980s, the Jat populations of India and Pakistan were estimated at 8 million and 13 million, respectively. Assuming these initial estimates are accurate, and that growth rates for the Jat communities has approximated that for their respective countries, Jats in India must number around 12 million, and in Pakistan over 21 million, for a total Jat population of over 33 million. However, some estimates place the Jat population in 1988 at 31 million, which would place their current population at around 43 million. At best, these are crude estimates.

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