Talk:Parc de Belleville

Sources

Formerly royal property of the Merovingians. - I'm not sure if this is correct, and I can't find better sources. According to Wikipedia, the dynasty ended in 751, but it says here that the hill was Merovingian property in the 14th century. On the Paris Town Hall website, it says "religious communities". I'd normally drop it there, but I've also found that it was supposed to be Merovingian property elsewere, including in the French version of the article.

Also in the French version, but I can't find a source for it: The hill was also the location of a bloody battle March 30, 1814, when 120,000 men in the Russian Imperial Army put the villages of Montreuil, La Villette, and La Chapelle to fire and sword.

Taverns and Guinguettes competed for a place there from the 14th to eighteenth century.[1] Why not before? What happened afterwards? Also, if the land was essentially agricutural, what were all those bars doing there?

Gypsum quarries were opened, but when? [2] CA387^Talk 21:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation issues

L’ouverture de carrières de gypse avait attiré une nouvelle population constituée d’ouvriers, bien souvent des Limousinants. Ils travaillaient pour les grands travaux d’Haussmann l’hiver, et repartaient l’été pour moissonner leurs terres. Le quartier était insalubre, ce qui ne s’arrangea pas à la fermeture des carrières.[3]

What are Limousinants? Also, my dictionary translates "insalubre" as "insanitary", but I get the feeling that the word has a more official sense.

Bonjour, for specific questions on French translations I often use the Grand Dictionnaire Terminologique de l’Office québécois de la langue française. There, for limousinants, you'll see "Maçon qui exécute le limousinage", which in itself is rough masonry - i.e. the one done with mortar and rubble-stone. I would therefore translate much along your lines, as follows:

The opening of a gypsum quarry in the nineteenth century attracted a population of seasonal workers (often masons), who worked were employed on Baron Haussmann's construction projects (this is the sense of a grand projet - infrastructure) during the winter and returned home in the summer to tend their fields. The area was deemed insalubrious, which didn't improve with the closing of the quarry. --Campelli (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I've translated la colline de Belleville as the hill of Bellville, because Belleville Hill sounds a bit to chipper. Anyone know of an official name for it in English?

Your rendering is perfectly fine. --Campelli (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Le dernier jour du carnaval, le tout Paris venait en masse assister à la « descente de la Courtille », du nom des gargotes qui longeaient la rue de Belleville. « Le coq Hardi » ou « La Carotte Filandreuse » étaient le théâtre de beuveries légendaires.[4]

How would one translate "du nom des gargotes" into English? CA387^Talk 21:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

A gargote is a cheap, low quality restaurant. In early French, it did not have a pejorative sense, but it does now. My friend who writes copy for French --> English adaptation suggested the expression "greasy spoons" as the English equivalent, but we would settle on "cheap restaurants". Thus:

On the last day of Carnival, Mardi gras, all of Paris would come en masse to be present at witness the "Ddescente de la Courtille", named after the cheap restaurants that sided rue de Belleville. Among them, "Le coq Hardi" [=Harry the cock] and "La carotte filandreuse" [=the coriaceous carrot] were well-known for the drinking binges of their patrons. --Campelli (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! That really helped me out a lot. I've integrated pretty much all of your suggestions, though I've translated the names of the restaurants as "The Hardy Rooster" and "The Philandering Carrot". Best, CA387^Talk 19:49, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey CA, pleased to have helped. If I may insist... filandreuse means "tough to eat", "with lots of fibers", like a piece of poorly cut and poorly cooked tough meat - whence my suggestion of "coriaceous". While I understand that "philandering" sounds better, you have to remember that the word means "womanizing" -- or to quote the Oxford:

to philander [fəˈlandər] — verb [ intrans. ] (of a man) readily or frequently enter into casual sexual relationships with women: they accepted that their husbands would philander with other women.

so... The Hardy Rooster sounds fine, but I'm worried about this carrot sleeping around in Renaissance Paris...

Francesco Campelli (talk) 20:10, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Whoops! Duly noted-- for some reason, I thought that it also meant "to blather on about something", along the same lines as "un écrivain filandreux". I've gone on and changed it to "Coriaceous". Thanks again! CA387^Talk 20:30, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Playground

Anybody have anything to add on this? http://www.handmadecharlotte.com/playground-paris/

- 189.122.91.31 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC).

External links modified

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