Talk:Pervomaysk, Russia

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On 1 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Pervomaysk. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Requested move 1 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 21:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pervomaysk, Russia → Pervomaysk
Pervomaisk, Ukraine → Pervomaisk

– There is no actual need for disambiguation with the comma and the country at the end, because they're already spelled differently, with the 'y' vs. the 'i'. The page that is currently located at Pervomaysk should be deleted to make room. There can be hatnotes added to both the Ukrainian and Russian toponym pages that link to the other one if a reader somehow accidentally ends up at the wrong page. HappyWith (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose they are different transliterations from he same Cyrillic name "Первомайск" and different English sources can transliterate in inconsistently, hence common disambiguation is necessary. Suggested solution with hatnotes is not good, because as I said transliterations of both russian and Ukrainian placenames are often inconsistent. - Altenmann >talk 17:12, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They’re not the same Cyrillic name, though. The Ukrainian name is uk:Первомайськ, with a soft sign. This wouldn’t matter anyway though, because English Wikipedia is in the Latin script.

Do English sources really ever transliterate the Russian settlements as "Pervomaisk"? I doubt that. Can you provide examples? HappyWith (talk) 22:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Первомайськ is not Ukrainian, it is surzhyk :-) Ukrainian would be Першомайськ, as in uk:Першомайська округа. - Altenmann >talk 23:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[Citation meeded]. I think it’s probably one of the official exonyms, like Sievierodonetsk. —Michael Z. 04:24, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When in doubt, use google. And you will readily find https://www.theweather.com/pervomaisk-l238432.htm and many more. And vice versa: Pervomaysk Ukraine - Altenmann >talk 23:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Both spellings correspond to valid systematic romanizations of either language. The technical difference would be a prime or apostrophe as in Pervomaisʹk, but this is usually dropped in English usage. I don’t think Wikipedia’s choice of incompatible romanization systems for these two languages (the Russian one non-standard) qualifies as natural disambiguation of English names. (Pervomaisk should probably redirect to the disambiguation page Pervomaysk.) —Michael Z. 04:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They need to be disambiguated anyway, because consensus insists that we continue to use Russian names for cities in Ukraine in at least some contexts. —Michael Z. 01:01, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. The Britannica article for the town in eastern Ukraine for example has it called "Pervomaysk". The letter "й" can often be romanized as "i" or "y" for both languages. Disambiguation is therefore necessary. Mellk (talk) 08:54, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.