Talk:Phaleristics

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Article title[edit]

There's a problem: this term as I once knew it was spelt phaleristics. The spelling this article uses not only made it harder to locate, but I believe the spelling is totally wrong. In English the "ph" spelling is used - I have seen the "f" spelling used in other countries. Even the Greek and Latin origin words are spelt with "ph". I want to suggest the article title be changed. Discussion? Djathinkimacowboy 06:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These two Google searches faleristics, phaleristics would seem to show that "f" is the more common spelling worldwide. I have created Phaleristics as a redirect so that "Phaleristics" can be used in the Wikipedia search box. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My profound thanks. I believe a redirect is the best solution. Djathinkimacowboy 14:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right, my opinion is that it's generally not worth getting too exercised about article titles as long a proper redirects are in place. FWIW when I had to come up the description for Julius Iversen I settled on "phalerist" although I can't now recall why. But either title is OK. Herostratus (talk) 19:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I also have seen it spelt both ways. Incidentally, 'phalerist' in my view is grammatically correct. A stamp collector can be a 'philatelist' but if you applied the grammatical rule then a ribbon or medal collector would be a 'phaleristicist'. Now I've had a reminder of the term, I'm so happy I just get carried off and now I recall it by thinking of this as a 'valourist', thus 'valouristics', and phonetically, that's close. ;) Djathinkimacowboy 23:03, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These are the terms I use (they are naturally for a bit of fun only - I do use "phalerist"):

phaleristician
phalerist
phaleristico
phaleristist
phalerist-a-rama

For example, whilst the Russian was a fine phalerist, I find the Czech was a phalerist-a-rama! I myself am no more than a humble quasi-sine-qua-non phaleristico, or phalerista if you will.... Djathinkimacowboy 23:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the spelling phaleristics. The only time I had seen it spelled with an "F" was in Russian. I believe the "F" version is due to the origin of this article. Fdutil (talk) 03:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see if we can get this correctly titled and get rid of that idiotic "falesristics" spelling.~©Djathinkimacowboy 03:08, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think this Google search proves the "ph" spelling is right; plus this search proves the spelling with an "f" is incorrect but may be used in the West as an alternate though still incorrect spelling. I move we retitle the article and reverse the redirect.~©Djathinkimacowboy 07:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One humble addition to open request for comments: I know how wp hates this, but look at these Amazon searches under "All" categories for phaleristics. Now look at the search for 'faleristics'. This second post I make to provide an indication that "faleristics" is not much more than Russian (and possibly Romanian) usage: faleristika or something to that effect, but not really having currency in England or the U.S.~©Djathinkimacowboy 07:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nominate for deletion?[edit]

Well this poor article took someone a lot of hours to work up--but we are missing citations like crazy. Do we nominate this for deletion until someone can do better, or will someone step up to the plate and help me with this task? I do not have a lot of time, and I am especially peeved about the history of the term. There's a lot of bad info in this thing too.~©Djathinkimacowboy 04:58, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think that deletion is the answer. However, if there are patently false things in the article without references, feel free to remove them. That may spur discussion on this page if we get into a Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. EricSerge (talk) 16:38, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Give me a few weeks, am really busy at the moment. I can give you a list of citations that'll dwarf the article itself. And by the way, "faleristics" does not exist, it is "phaleristics". The only languages using an "f" are the ones where "ph" cannot be used for the same sound. Fdutil (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to you both. I did not believe for a second in the existence of "falesristics" but you never know. I have seen that spelling someplace else, but it's neither here nor there. I'm also pressed for time, Fdutil, but the one thing worrying me is the official name of this is Faleristics which someone cleverly had as redirect if one enters Phaleristics. I keep wondering who did that and why. Eric, I agree with you but I will steer clear from any lively discussion if you don't mind. ;) However, I did not mean that we remove this article at all, only the title and stupid spelling alternative that doesn't exist. Oh and of course I do object in general to the fact that we simply do not have enough citations to give this the treatment it deserves. I can't find more than a handful myself. ~©Djathinkimacowboy 20:47, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Updated comment: Here's what I have stated elsewhere and I stand by it: I want to try and save that article, which had been my intention from the start. I just don't know if we can: we have a field that is bolstered solely by collectors, what appears for the time being to be a made-up term for it, and here I was arguing about the spelling of a word that appears not to "officially" exist although I believe it does exist. The field itself is notable, no question. The trouble I see is whether the field is mature enough for a wp article beyond a stub.~©Djathinkimacowboy 03:18, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is no doubt whatsoever in my ind that the redirect was done by a non native English speaker, probably from Eastern Europe, the Russian and Ukrainian spelling starts with an "F" and the photograph used shows Soviet and Ukrainian awards. Below are very credible links to citations supporting the "PH" spelling:

From the Orders and Medals Society of America, it not only shows the proper spelling but also its origins http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=168
From the Phaleristics Academy of Portugal http://www.faleristica.org/?page_id=693
From Amazon, books on the subject http://www.amazon.ca/Glossary-Terms-Used-Phaleristics-Decorations/dp/0961732024
The UK uses the "PH" spelling http://www.colinsmythe.co.uk/cslinks/phaler.htm
Even Russian dealers properly use the PH spelling in their translations http://www.antique.ru/english/numizmat.shtml
More authors using "PH" http://www.shopbulgaria.com/catalogues-awards-5090/1214/macedonia-in-bulgarian-phaleristics-medals-orders-and-badges.html

The list is near endless, just how many dozens are required to put this to rest for good? I suggest that not too much time be spent debating this unnecessarily when non native speakers make changes to English pages. Fdutil (talk) 18:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I created the redirect in response to this help request by Djathinkimacowboy. I am a native English speaker, but not a subject-matter expert. The redirect will not stop you moving the page if you wish. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:20, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good site (though it is American) to look into what's happening, but hardly a good reference source beyond what I already said: that it is only the collector's field now and barely an academic subject. But I do really appreciate that we have it and it confirms the spelling. Why isn't it in the article? Some would say it will do as a citation.

Fdutil, your stance is unclear. If you want to put this to rest, why does that article use the "f" spelling, and why does it redirect from the proper spelling of Phaleristics?

In any case, John Reading, I do not edit at that level, don't know how to do it and don't want any trouble. I suspect this article will sit, unworked-on and remain the pathetic stub that it is now. I have said several times, I cannot find enough citations at wp's standards to justify keeping it...but I am not doing anything with it.

I'll let other good editors decide, which you seem to have done already.~©Djathinkimacowboy 00:15, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The page you need is Wikipedia:Moving a page#How to move a page. I'm taking this page off my watchlist again now, but if either of you would like me to do the move on your behalf, feel free to ask on my talk page. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:16, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My stance is unclear? How so? I never once in my entire life used the "F" spelling. I'm one of the people arguing this article was renamed incorrectly by a non native speaker. Fdutil (talk) 19:46, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article cleanup per 2012 tag[edit]

I cleaned up the article per 2012 tag. Sourcing still appears to be poor. Please let me know if there are any concerns / feedback. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]