Talk:Pippin Took/Archive 1

Archive 1

Misc

I thought he threw a stone into the well...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.45.149.198 (talk • contribs) 10:02, 4 June 2005

He did, you're right. – Zeal 1 July 2005 20:49 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the family tree at the bottom of this page suggests that Belladonna and Bungo were engaged in an incestuous union ? WMMartin 8 August 2005 12:20 (UTC)

Please, by all means, if you can figure out how to fix it...I get a headache just thinking about it! -Aranel ("Sarah") 22:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Didn't he make a lot of trouble/ he gets Gandalf killed by alerting the balrog to their present at Moira. He also forgets that they are using the name "underhill" in the prancing pony causing the incident where frodo becomes invisible. I barely remember, but isn't he the charater most readers want to kill? I thought it as him, but perhaps i am mistaken. If he is the annoying one, someone should point that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.157.10 (talk • contribs) 18:57, 20 March 2009

Really, how could anyone want to kill Pippin? If you'll remember, he is the youngest of the four main hobbits, not even of age yet, and is still considered a young boy, a child. Therefore, he displays childlike impulsiveness, as well as a clumsy manner that is often notable in most children. He is also possibly the most lovable of the characters, except perhaps Sam, and displays true loyalty as a friend in the Return of the King, when he helps Merry to find healers after he had stabbed the Witch King of Angmar. Also, though he did in fact cause the death of Gandalf, his actions allowed the wizard to come back as the more powerful Gandalf the White. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frodologist (talk • contribs) 02:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Tooks as Scots

Here and here are a couple of sites which cite the golf/Thain explanation for Billy Boyd's Scottish accent. Unfortunately, these are just fan sites: if someone can find a more official reference, that would be great. —Josiah Rowe 03:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

And this is the bit from The Hobbit about Bullroarer Took and golf:

If you have ever seen a dragon in a pinch, you will realize that this was only poetical exaggeration applied to any hobbit, even to Old Took's great-grand-uncle Bullroarer, who was so huge (for a hobbit) that he could ride a horse. He charged the ranks of the goblins of Mount Gram in the Battle of the Green Fields, and knocked their king Golfimbul's head clean off with a wooden club. It sailed a hundred yards through the air and went down a rabbit-hole, and in this way the battle was won and the game of Golf invented at the same moment.

—Josiah Rowe 04:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Actually, of the two sites you sourced there, the first just refers to the second, and the second one is an old web page which doesn't have a direct quote from the actors. I've never seen a second news release that ever corrobrated or confirmed what they said here; so I think it's unreliable. All they ever said in the commnetaries was "Took are like Scots, so we can keep them"; they didn't explain why they came to that conclusion. So I put in the terrain stuff, granted as mostly speculation, because I think it's more rationale than the strained golf explanation. ---Ricimer 02:19, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pippinprintscreen.jpg

Image:Pippinprintscreen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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In universe

This article is far too "in universe" and needs to be rewritten to reflect that it is a fictional character. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Pippin

Should not this article be named Pippin through the rules of common name. Using his "official name" in and of itself seems to violate rules against writing in in universe style.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:37, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, it couldn't just be "Pippin" as that's a common name as well as an apple. Peregrin Took has the merit of being unique and memorable, as well as a major search term. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:26, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Peregrin Took is the perfect, policy compliant name for this article per WP:NATURALDIS. Since the other, more common name Pippin, needs disambiguation, this needs a better option. Per WP:NATURALDIS, and I quote, "Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names." Since Peregrin Took is "an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title.", it makes a good title given that Pippin would not work because there are too many other articles also using that name. --Jayron32 14:42, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

• How about Pippin (Hobbit) or Pippin Took. They both would be much better than the current name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

A plot summary not a biography

The whole plot summary is written too in-universe. This is how we would write about a real political figure who was known most from an epic story of his life, not at all how we should write a report on a fictional character.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:04, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, gosh what a mess. This should consist of a short fictional biography (from Lord of the Rings), a critical review section (from learned sources), and a popular culture section (from other sources). I've made a start and will continue. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:42, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pippin Took/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 09:53, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Reviewed all sources with 2% or more match on Earwig's Copyvio Tool. No concerns.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my comments BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC) Chiswick Chap I only have minor tweaks to suggest. The map looks good, but I haven't checked accuracy yet, should be able to do that shortly. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:56, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:48, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for making the changes Chiswick Chap. I'm happy to pass this for GA. Good work, thanks. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:25, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Map

I gather that Whitwell was located on the Green Hills, not far from Tuckborough, but don't see it on the map of Tolkein's I looked at. Is the inclusion here based on a description from the texts, or from other sources?

It's stated to be in the Tookland near Tuckborough as you say, in the Green Hill Country. That constrains it to a small area.

Yes, I think it's valid to include on the map in this context. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

• Some aliases are not covered in the main article and are uncited. Consider citing there, or including in the body of the article. (Peregrin I, Razanur Tûk, Razar Tûk and variants redirect here)

Added refs.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Fallohide branch - not covered in the main article, and uncited in infobox.

Added ref.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Prose

Consider linking "romance" to distinguish it from the subject of Romance novels. Maybe to Medieval romance literature? There are other options at Romance.

Linked.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Adaptations section is fine but a bit like a list. Consider redrafting or even making it a table, but this isn't a blocker to GA.

It's a bit dry; very hard to find decent sources to say anything juicier. Let's leave it.

OK. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Sources

• Primary sources

• "After crossing the Misty Mountains and being given a brooch by the elf-queen Galadriel" - doesn't look like this is all covered in "The Departure of Boromir," so may need additional ref(s) unless I've missed it.

Added ref.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• "the tallest hobbits in history" - not sure if this is in "Treebeard" as my Google books preview is missing pages, possibly needs another ref.

Added.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• There is no reference in the article to the stone-dropping "fool of a Took" incident in Moria. I don't expect a comprehensive recap of LOTR in every related article but as "Fool of a took" redirects here, you might consider adding something.

Added and cited.

That's fine. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Croft (Only part of the source was in the Google books preview, but support is in place from primary sources too)
• Shippey (to 2003 edition, so page numbers not verified)
• Nitzsche
• Kocher
• Bassham & Bronson
• Beck
• Behind the Voice Actors
• Radioriel
• Rehnström
• Walker-Arnott

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Sketch Map of The Shire.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:15, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Denethor Germanic?

serve to throw light on the characters of the good and bad Germanic lords Théoden of Rohan and Denethor of Gondor.
Obviously the Rohirric culture is written as heavily Germanic... but is there anything that suggests Gondor is too? --138.245.1.1 (talk) 12:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

This is Jane Chance's opinion. I don't think anyone else has made the suggestion, so we don't want it in Wikipedia's voice, indeed. I've removed it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)