Talk:Potulice concentration camp

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Untitled

This article needs to be linked from other articles, it is currently orphaned.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 03:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

POV

Molobo, the article elegantly leaves out what happened in the camp between 1945 and 1950. According to that 3500 Germans were killed in it. Sciurinæ 13:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I don't speak or read German well. You have to translate it for me. I only read a couple of passages relevent and it seems to concern some allegations by a private person. As you know Wiki policy is to use scholary and verified material.If you have a schol

And I am only interested in German concentration camp there. If you want to write an article about stories told by the so called "explelled" be my guest to start your own article.Use however a scholary and vertified material similiar for example to the renoknown IPN institute. It could be your first if I am not mistaken. As to your suggestion moved the article name so now it is more precise.--Molobo 14:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Funny: when Kusma asked whether he should translate from the German wiki for you some days ago, you answered "Thank you for correcting that but you don't have to ask for translation I will be able to translate it myself." And now how brilliantly you're talking around it. ;-) But honestly, I really don't expect you to be interested in the sufferings of non-Poles. Still, this one-sided assessment of the camp and the glossing over the period from 1945 make the article biased, you know that. Sciurinæ 14:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sciurinæ, if you think something is missing from the article, be bold and add it. You can't fault someone for not doing it for you. Appleseed (Talk) 19:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I searched further to learn what Sciurinæ had in mind by his allusion. Here is what I found that mentions supposed killings of Germans in Potulice : http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/crimesafterwwII.htm Jewish War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity Immediately Following the Second World War --Molobo 14:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't need to speak much that anybody presenting ideas as such as studies on "Jewish War Crimes against Humanity" is to be taken with total rejection. --Molobo 14:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a book called Eye for an Eye: The Story of Jews Who Sought Revenge for the Holocaust about the revenge of Jewish survivors who then joined NKVD and UB. It claims they killed 60-80,000 German civilians in the former Nazi camps. I believe this happened. Don't forget a story of Shlomo Morel, the ex-commandant who is hiding in Israel because Poland wants him extradited for a crimes against humanity (against the German part of humanity, you know). --Kocoum 21:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article below describes very clearly that Potulice was used as detention camp for German civilians for years after the end of WW2. It also describes the harsh conditions inside the camp and particularly the mistreatment by the infamous Polish camp physician Ignacy Cedrowski. If interested I’m very happy to translate the article from German into English.

Internierungs- und Arbeitslager in den Gebieten östlich von Oder und Neiße

Viele Deutsche - meist Frauen, Kinder und ältere Leute - wurden zwangsweise zum Arbeitseinsatz verpflichtet, in Arbeits- und Internierungslager gebracht oder aus angeblichen „Sicherungsgründen“ in die längst überfüllten Gefängnisse und Zuchthäuser eingeliefert. Als Sammelstellen für die Festgenommenen diente anfangs eine Vielzahl von Räumen in Gerichten und Polizeistationen, Luftschutzkellern, Rathäusern, Schulen und anderen größeren Gebäuden. Hier führte der polnische Sicherheitsdienst Verhöre durch, die meist nicht weniger brutal waren als die des sowjetischen NKWD, um vermeintliche oder tatsächliche Nazis und Kriegsverbrecher zu finden. Unter den Festgenommenen befanden sich freilich kaum höhere NS-Chargen, sondern zumeist nur einfache Mitglieder der NSDAP und von NS-Organisationen (wie BDM, HJ, NS-Frauenschaft, Arbeitsfront) oder Unschuldige und sogar in der NS-Zeit verfolgte Hitler-Gegner.

Wie der NKWD nutzte auch der polnische Geheimdienst Anlagen und Außenstellen nationalsozialistischer Konzentrationslager (wie Auschwitz, Birkenau, Jaworzno, Schwientochlowitz, Potulitz oder Kaltwasser). Insgesamt waren auf polnischem Staatsgebiet in den Grenzen vor 1939 - so das Ergebnis der Recherchen von Helga Hirsch in polnischen Archiven - rund 110.000 Personen in Lagern und Gefängnissen inhaftiert. Nach Schätzungen des Roten Kreuzes sind dort in der Zeit von 1945 bis 1949 etwa 22.500 Menschen ums Leben gekommen.

(vgl. dazu Helga Hirsch, Die Rache der Opfer. Deutsche in polnischen Lagern 1944-1950, Berlin 1998, S. 203, 213, Anm. 34, 196)

68 der Frauen, die an der Fragebogenaktion teilgenommen haben, gehören zu dieser Gruppe der so genannten „Internierten“.

Ein Drittel der 68 internierten Frauen waren in Lager in Westpreußen gebracht worden. 16 von ihnen waren allein in Potulice bei Bromberg inhaftiert - einem früheren Außenlager des nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslagers Stutthof bei Danzig. In diese Baracken waren von 1941 bis zum Januar 1945 insgesamt 20.000 Häftlinge eingeliefert worden. Nach 1945 wurden dann 20.000 bis 30.000 Deutsche nach Potulice gebracht, die im Umkreis des Lagers arbeiten mussten. Kranke sowie Alte und Kinder blieben im Lager zurück. Im Dezember 1947 waren in Potulice ca. 24.000 Deutsche registriert, darunter 6.000 (d.h. ein Viertel Kinder). Dieses Lager ist wegen der grausamen Behandlung der Inhaftierten durch das Lagerpersonal, vor allem des Lagerarztes Ignacy Cedrowski berüchtigt.

Im Totenregister dieses Lagers sind über 3.000 Verstorbene verzeichnet. Schätzungen des Roten Kreuzes beziffern die Zahl der Toten auf etwa 3.500. Wie Helga Hirsch recherchierte, waren in den kleineren Nebenlagern wie Kaltwasser, Hohensalza, Krone u.a, deren Insassen 1945/46 nach Potulice überführt wurden, in der ersten Nachkriegszeit ebenfalls viele Menschen aufgrund von Hunger, Epidemien und der brutalen Behandlung durch das Wachpersonal gestorben.

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