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It should not be Moskau, but Moskowien (Muscovy in English) as is clear from the German article. That Moskau wikilink was of course going nowhere and I corrected it. --Pan Gerwazy 13:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- I am starting to think that Reichskommissariat Muscovy could be a good translation of the German. Muscovy is not so difficult to pronounce as Moskowien (where the "w" has to be pronounced like English "v"). Reichskommissariat is not so strange - most English speakers know the word "Reich". --Pan Gerwazy 01:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- In the title, we should use the German name, whatever it is - translation is unnecessary. The translations of contemporary German documents that I've seen on the net refer to "Reichskommissariat Moskau" and, if I were looking for the Wiki article, I would search for "Reichskommissariat Moskau". "Muscovy" is an archaic expression unfamiliar to most English speakers (and actually refers to something else) and "Moskowien" means nothing. The Reichskommissariat Moskau was a unique entity, peculiar to the circumstances and that name seems to be the most commonly used in English translations. Folks at 137 06:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- The problem is that the nazis did use Moskowien. Have a look at this http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4171/grossgermanishesreich6voq1.jpg (the authors are the Institut für Zeitgeschichte, München-Berlin 1999!). Have you had a look at the German article that I linked? There is no "Reichskommissariat Moskau" on German Wikipedia. The other Reichskommissariaten are named after a region (Ostland, Ukraine, Gothenland, Ingermanland, Kaukasien...), so why should Moscow-Muscovy be an exception? --Pan Gerwazy 09:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Please forget "Muscovy": in English, it represents a different period in Russian history and refers to a specific historic state. I stick to my view that the German name used at the time is acceptable - whether it's "Moskau" or "Moskowien". The absence of the term "Reichskommissariat Moskau" in German wiki is not necessarily proof. The original version of this article appeared to be a translation into English - I assumed from German (could be Russian), so I assumed that "Moskau was correct. I propose we use the correct or official German name, explain the situation and ensure that there are redirects as necessary. Since I don't speak or read German, I'll have to accept what I'm told. I had a look a at the map: as it says, it's "Utopie" and, including Italian Tyrol and Sweden, it doesn't reflect the actual situation, more like German aspirations before WWI, so what's the source? Folks at 137 20:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- But that's the point, the aim was to revert Russia to the solely European state, which was comprised of the lands controlled by Muscovy and the surrounding territories. This Reichskommissariat was likened to Muscovy, hence the name. Humanophage 9:59, 22 Jule 2007 (UTC)
The article on Alfred Rosenberg correctly points out that he was not a proponent of Slavic extermination. However, in this article it is implied that he was a supporter of expunging them from their territories, and that he fully shared the sentiments of Adolf Hitler on this subject, which he did not. Here is the excerpt that I'm referring to:
- The Germans intended to destroy Russia permanently, irrespective of whether it was capitalist, communist or tsarist. Adolf Hitler's Lebensraum policy, expressed in "Mein Kampf", was to dispossess the Russians - as was to happen with other Slavs in Poland- and expel most of them beyond the Urals. As this was the principal war aim, Hitler suggested the construction of a great war memorial to remember all "Aryans" falling in the line of duty during the "anti-bolshevik crusade" in Russia. To implement these plans, Alfred Rosenberg organized special administrative measures for the province, and Hermann Göring made plans for their economic exploitation..
The said article, however, points out:
- Following these plans, when Wehrmacht forces invaded Soviet-controlled territory, they immediately implemented the first of the proposed Reichskomissariats of Ostland and Ukraine, under the leadership of Hinrich Lohse and Erich Koch respectively. The organization of these administrative territories led to conflict between Rosenberg and the SS over the treatment of Slavs under German occupation. Rosenberg was appalled at the displacement, enslavement, and sometimes genocide of non-Jews in occupied Eastern countries. As Nazi Germany's chief racial theorist, Rosenberg considered Slavs, though lesser than Germans, to be Aryan. Rosenberg often complained to Hitler and Himmler about the treatment of non-Jewish occupied peoples.
Wouldn't it be reasonable to include this information so as not to make the article appear one-sided? Humanophage 10:27, 22 Jule 2007 (UTC)
This is supposed to be an article on the proposed Reich administrative division of the Soviet territory. However, it deals with everything but that subject!
* 1 History o 1.1 German Army intelligence units related with the Russian cause o 1.2 German Commanders linked with Russian units o 1.3 Russian antisoviet leaders and Commanders + 1.3.1 European front + 1.3.2 Russian political leaders # 18.104.22.168 Decorations received by Bronislav Kaminski + 1.3.3 Pacific War front o 1.4 Russian volunteers in German Army forces o 1.5 Russian volunteers in the German Air Force o 1.6 Russian volunteers in Japanese forces o 1.7 Russian Right wing parties + 1.7.1 European front + 1.7.2 Pacific front o 1.8 Russian Right wing political organizations + 1.8.1 European front + 1.8.2 Pacific War front * 2 See also
Agreed. Nothing wrong with listing several collaborationist leaders, political movements or military groups in an an article such as this, but what we now have is a bit much. Moved it to the new article Russian volunteer units with Axis forces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morgan Hauser (talk • contribs) 17:54, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Realm's Commissionerate of Moscow?
Isn't the translation of Reichskommissariat Moskau into English as Realm's Commissionerate of Moscow?