Talk:Saint Knut's Day

Most Celebrated

St Knut day is one of the most wonderful days of the year. It probably one of the most widely celebrated events in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.155.163 (talk • contribs) 08:51, August 29, 2006 (UTC)

"It probably one of the most widely celebrated events in the world." - that's crazy talk—Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.33.137 (talk • contribs) 01:12, December 27, 2006 (UTC)

I think we can remove this entire section, don't you think? 85.227.226.235 (talk) 17:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

And here we are, with no protests. Okay, so away it goes.85.227.226.235 (talk) 10:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Sweden

Why is this a Sweden-related stub? Surely, if anything, it should be a Denmark-related stub, considering Knut was a King of Denmark. Deaþe gecweald 09:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Because this day is celebrated in swedish-culture communities. 85.227.226.235 (talk) 17:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well it is a celebration of Knud den Hellige, who was killed in a church. That's enough to make it a part of Danish history as well. The fact celebration in Denmark was later removed (after the Protestant reformation) doesn't diminish this anyway. Dylansmrjones (talk) 02:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

No, no, no - you're missing the point. You need to source the claim it has anything to do with Knud to justify the Danish connection. 85.227.226.235 (talk) 10:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, it would be preferable if there was a sourced statement "This was celebrated in Denmark up until NNNN, when it stopped because of XXXX". Unless these alleged facts can be found, I suggest we remove everything that suggests this celebration is linked to Canute (see other sections of this Talk page). Thanks. 85.227.226.235 (talk) 10:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Do I also have to find a source for the colour blue being blue? Take a look at Roman Catholic saints. But yes, we need sources. There is so much more to write. I'll visit the library later today. Dylansmrjones (talk) 11:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC) - PS. Please create an account (85.227.226.235) - I consider it problematic that a Swedish person is taking a patent on the feast day of a Danish king canonized by the Roman Catholic Church. Dylansmrjones (talk) 11:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Denmark

St. Knut's Day has not been celebrated in Denmark for many decades and most Danes has never heard of it.83.93.233.16 — Preceding undated comment added 12:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Which is why the connection to the danish king is tenous at best and needs to be sourced or removed. 85.227.226.235 (talk) 17:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced template

I slapped a Unreferenced template onto this page until somebody either finds a source for these claims or removes them. Specifically, why is King Canute involved when this celebration is mostly an internal swedish affair? 85.227.226.235 (talk) 17:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Twenty Days

Do note that this time period only makes sense if you start counting from Christmas Eve, not Christmas Day. Of course, unlike many other countries, Christmas is celebrated on the 24th in Sweden, not the 25th. 85.227.226.235 (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

You start counting on the 25th as being the first day of Christmas. December has 31 days, the 31st being then the 7th day of Christmas. The 5th January is the 12th day of Christmas. So the 13th January is the 20th day of Christmas. Counting does not start on Christmas Eve. 83.251.103.57 (talk) 14:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Date confusion

In Canute Lavard:

His feast day is celebrated on the day of his death, January 7.

In St. Knut's Day:

St. Knut's Day is a holiday celebrated in Sweden and Finland on January 13

This may both be true (in particular if the day is not really related to Knud Lavard, as suggested above) - but it certainly deserves a note in the article and if possible an explanation!--Noe (talk) 09:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, except that it's prob irrelevant. Swed WP claims that the connection between Canute and the festival — which BTW is not a holiday — is by almanac: the festival named "Twentieth day Jule" (= X-mas), or alternatively "Twentieth day Canute", happen to occur on the day of "Knut" (= Canute) in the almanac. The article is written like it is a saint's holiday which is not the practical case in Sweden. It is a culturally adapted end of the X-mas, in other countries occurring at Candlemas Feb 2. Repeating myself:

• the true name is "Twentieth day Jule", or alternatively "Twentieth day Canute"
• it is not a holiday, it's a festival on a normal working day,
• the connection to Canute Lavard is by almanac, not by saint veneration,
• the festival ends Xmas by plundering the Xmas tree and giving sweets to children

Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 10:23, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, as we often see, articles linked from the main page are changing fast.

Once the dust has settled, the article (not just this talk page) should either not reference Knud Lavard at all, or make it clear why the dates differ.

I've no idea which of these two options that is the right one.

If it's the first one, I think St. Knut's Day should be mentioned in Canute Lavard too.--Noe (talk) 14:46, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, putting a link to a stub from the main page will certainly make it get attention. Maybe one should make a daily collection of dubious stub articles and put it in a certain daily attention block. That would proceed the development of the articles. I think the name of the article should be either "Twentieth day Jule" or "Tjugondag jul" depending on what's in better accord with the naming standards. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 15:53, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

About the almanac/saint question: the SW article Knut (namn) (Canute (name)) claims (without sources!!) that Jan 13 is the name day of Knut/Canute since the 17th century (first reformation century in Sweden/Finland which was then one empire) after Canute IV of Denmark, and that Canute Lavard earlier was celebrated in Jan 7. There was also a third Canute celebrated in Jul 10, btw.. If SW Wikipedia is correct, then the connection to C. Lavard disappears. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 16:06, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Worse: Nordiska Museet claims that also Jan 7 was celebrated after Canute IV of Denmark, but says nothing in the direction of reformation playing any role. The tradition may simply have been propagated to the Swedish Empire via its occupation of Scania. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 16:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

"Ordbog over det danske Sprog" [ODS] ("Dictionary of the Danish Language", Denmark's most comprehensive dictionary) disagrees with that identification: entry: "Jul" (Christmas) mentions "julefesten hører op paa st. Knud hertugs dag (7/1)" (i.e. "Christmas celebrations end on the day of Saint Canute the Duke, 7 January") [ODS, volume 9, 1927, entry: "Jul"]. That refers to Knud Lavard, not the Saint-King. The notion that (Saint) Knud "took out"/"rings out"/"hunts out" Christmas was apparently also known in Denmark in earlier times. The notion that 7 January is the saint day of Knud Lavard [not Canute IV of Denmark] is also stated under the entry "Knud" "navn paa helgen(dag), især om Knud Lavard(s helgendag 7/1)" (i.e. "Knud": name of a saint['s day], in particular Knud Lavard['s saint day], 7 January". [ODS, vol. 10, 1928, entry: "Knud"] 80.163.68.22 (talk) 07:45, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge

I don't know much Swedish or much about this holiday, but Knutmasso and St. Knut's Day seem to be about the same thing. Knutmasso seems to be a transwiki, which I cleaned up as best I could. Hopefully someone who knows better than I do can take a whack at it. --Xanzzibar (talk) 22:54, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

It is not Knutmasso, but Knutmässo, with an a with an umlaut. I don't know if the Swedish letters å, ä and ö are translated to a, a and o in English Wikipedia (it seems odd as a name is what it is). If they're not, Knutmasso should be changed to Knutmässo. Mässa means mass in Swedish. /15-01-09 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.190.127 (talk) 14:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

First paragraph not up to date to present days

The first paragraph says "is a traditional festival celebrated in Sweden and Finland on 13 January." and "Christmas trees are taken down on Tjugondag jul, and the candies and cookies that decorated the tree are eaten.[citation needed]" These two sentences describe a tradition that is not celebrated anymore. I'm middle age, and I've never celebrated it. It 'used to be' a traditional 'festival' maybe a century ago. Nowadays, it is not celebrated at all and only referred to by its name.

Many people don't even have a Christmas tree. If they do, the tree is trashed long before 20 days after Christmas, which is obvious considering having a real, half dead pine tree inside for three weeks is kinda "messy". If the tree is not real, ie plastic, it is stucked away some days after Christmas. Candies and cookies are by most Swedes not even put in the tree (if they even have a tree then). If they are, they are definitely not eaten 20 days after Christmas.

Sometimes I wonder who writes these articles in the first place. Are they a hundred years old or have sources that are? ;) /15-01-09 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.190.127 (talk) 14:49, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Anecdotes not being data and all that aside: our family still has our real spruce tree in the living room, with lights and decorations, to be dismantled later today after the tree has spent 22 days indoors. While it might be common to get rid of the Christmas trees well before New Year's Day, at least in Finland that is not always the case. Greyer (talk) 12:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)