Talk:Save as Draft

Save as Draft has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 26, 2018. (Reviewed version).

This article was nominated for deletion on 7 January 2018. The result of the discussion was keep.

Katy Perry Low‑importance

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Songs

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Women in Music

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Genre

I've made the genre match the sourced content, which specifically refers to the song as an "electro-ballad". Not sure what this genre is, but interpreting it as electro would be against WP:STICKTOSOURCE and WP:SUBJECTIVE, which state not to interpret the source in your own way or to choose what genre a song belongs too. Any further thoughts on this? Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:46, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Single status

I see we consider this a promotional single, but aren't singles sent to radio automatically singles? Like Taylor Swift's New Year's Day, Rihanna's Raining Men, Beyoncé's Sorry... The list goes on. Pancake (talk) 08:15, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And Perry's own Hey Hey Hey from the same album. Pancake (talk) 08:24, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Status recently tried to fix this but was quickly reverted by Cartoon network freak, who says there apparently was a discussion about this? Where? A source used in this article even calls it a single, with Gary Trust of Billboard (!) calling it the adult pop single, while "Swish Swish" is the pop single. Interpreting this as a "promotional single" in spite of sources calling it a proper single is some kind of violation of WP:NOR. The only way for a "radio single" to be promotional is if it's exclusively sent to radio stations in CD form. Cartoon network freak, do you mind explaining why you don't think this is a single? Why is Hey Hey Hey a single while this isn't? Pancake (talk) 07:08, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@PancakeMistake:; @Status: Sources could easily mix up "single" with "promotional single" or "album track"; also, Perry's label hasn't made any official statement regarding the status of the song. There indeed were multiple discussions on this subject before, such as here and here. There are multiple arguments that speak both for and against the single release of "Save as Draft", but please start a new discussion if you feel it's needed rather than doing edits on your own. Cartoon network freak (talk) 07:22, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a new discussion. You obviously follow this article so why didn't you chime in three months ago when I first raised this concern? A song sent to radio equals a single. It's really that easy. You're really going to ignore Billboard's Gary Trust because "sources could easily mix up" the definitions? This isn't any source, he is the co-director of charts at Billboard. Pancake (talk) 07:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And please, present to me, a source that calls this a promotional single. Pancake (talk) 07:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@PancakeMistake: Please don't be rude to me. All I want (and assumingly all we want) is a clear consensus to this problem, so we should start a new discussion and ping more users to discuss. It took me considerable work to bring this article (and "Hey Hey Hey") to GA, and I want to keep it on a good level without edits based on one or two opinions. Cartoon network freak (talk) 08:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

When was I rude? Here you go, Perry appeared on a podcast where it is called a single (2:45). Calling it a promotional single is based on one or two opinions, based on the discussions you referred to earlier. Calling it a single is a fact. If you're worried about the state of this article, changing it to a proper single won't affect its GA status. Pancake (talk) 08:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And I can't stress enough that it is not an opinion that a song sent to radio is a single, it is a fact. Pancake (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@PancakeMistake: Please ping more users to discuss. Cartoon network freak (talk) 11:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Whis isn't this changed to single from promotional single already? It's so obvious... I mean if this is just a promotional single, we should change Dance in the Dark, Chunky and Hold Tight as well. An airplay release always points to a single release, there is no source saying its a promotional one as its mentioned above. Kirtap92 (talk) 03:27, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It may be helpful to post something to related WikiProjects to get more feedback or a request for comments. I am not sure how the request for comments works exactly, but it would be helpful to get more feedback from uninvolved editors. I am uncertain if an airplay release necessarily directly correlates to a full single release, as there are such things as radio-only releases, such as "Underneath the Stars". This kind of terminology can be tough though, as a lot of media outlets can differ over whether or not something is a single or a promotional single. Aoba47 (talk) 20:55, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Hi! Thank you for trying to solve the issue, but I don't think this is possible. We've already had several discussion on this and "Hey Hey Hey" specifically, but we always discovered that sources labelled "Save as Draft" differently. Also, the label or Perry's management didn't issue any statement regarding this matter. It is true that "Save as Draft" was only released for radio airplay (was it?) but I don't think there's enough proof to go with the "Radio airplay only single" infobox. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:26, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cartoon network freak: I was not proposing that this be recategorized to a radio airplay only single; I was merely using that as an example. I was primarily responding to @Kirtap92:'s point that an "airplay release always points to a single release", which I do not necessarily agree with it. Aoba47 (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: I understood your point, and it's completely true. This will always be an issue on Wikipedia :( . Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, and I do not mean this as a critique against you. Unfortunately, this is a very ambiguous subject matter, particularly when the artist and/or the record label does not clarify the terminology with singles. Aoba47 (talk) 21:55, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: @Cartoon network freak: I can only pick more examples (to further try to prove my point) for songs that received an airplay release and the Wikipedia community called it a single right away. Just recently Always Remember Us This Way by Lady Gaga got an "A List" release on BBC Radio 2 playlist. Absolutely not a word about being a single or not, but because of the airplay release the community automatically decided to call it a single. When you look at the talk page of the song's article there's not even a discussion about it. That is because since like forever when an airplay release for a song happened the editors of Wikipedia right away called it a single. That is why I don't understand what's the difference here. But let me find other examples of this with US airplay releases that are named singles on Wikipedia without any other source. There is the song New Year's Day by Taylor Swift which was sent to country airplay and is called the 4th single from her album. The only source provided for it's single release on the article is a Billboard article that talks about the song getting some airplay on country stations and that it got an add date. That's it. Not a word about it being an official single. That's because when a label sends a song to airplay they push it with commercial intention, and it means they promote the song on that format. Also if you read our article about singles under the radio single section it says: "A song is considered a single by the time the label officially releases the song to radio (known as "Impact Date" or "Radio Date")" Save as Draft qualifies because it had an impact date. Kirtap92 (talk) 16:46, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]