Talk:Scouse (food)

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Derivation[edit]

The entry gave the derivation of scouse from the Norwegian labskaus. The Norwegian and German pages however, derive labskaus from the English word lobscouse, supported by Duden. I updated the entry.Cavort (talk) 10:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Fish based, Roberts reference & the derivation of Labscouse[edit]

fish...[edit]

Having searching carefully I was not able to find any reference to validate Esasus' edit saying that scouse is a fish based dish, so I refactored to remove that.

You will see references on the web to German Labskaus being a Herring dish, but all the pictures available on Google images seem to confirm that it is indeed a beef (and or pork) hash, served with one or two rollmops (which are made from herring), pickle and sometimes fried egg added on top.

The Norwegian connection...[edit]

Esasus cited Chris Roberts, Heavy Words Lightly Thrown: The Reason Behind Rhyme, Thorndike Press,2006 (ISBN 0-7862-8517-6) as reference when he modified the page.

I found this at http://books.google.com/books?id=MdMZqhMzfpYC but I don't know if this online copy is authorized or illegally published.

On page 112 the referenced source reads:

Even 'Scouse' (and the attendant dish) comes from the north European sailors' food, lobskaus, which was brought to Liverpool by foreign mariners.

The Amazon page for the book http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Words-Lightly-Thrown-Reason/dp/1592401309 has this review:

From Publishers Weekly ... A librarian by night and a London tour guide by day, Roberts deploys an informal style of scholarship to dazzling effect, transforming a catalogue of familiar nursery rhymes into a treasure trove of tantalizingly slippery archaisms, hidden etymological layers, arcane associations and buried meanings. ... In a fluidly digressive style, he debunks accepted theories and confidently asserts his own. ...

Unless has Roberts' book has good references it can cite itself to the origin of the word, it's probably not a good source to be taken as an authority on the origin of the word, so I took that out too.

The page for Labskaus seems to have more detailed information on the derivation whether it is correct or not I don't know. If it can be validated, perhaps this should be copied or moved to this (English Labscouse) page where it is directly relevant.

Searching on Google the origin of 'Labscouse, Lapscouse, Lapskaus, Lobskaus, Lobskaus seems to turn up a strong folk perception of a conflicting direction for the English <=> Norwegian influence.

We're so used to terms in English having come from other languages so much that perhaps we don't expect to find words that came about the other way around, or maybe they're actually right and the fewer sources saying English => Norwegian are wrong.

I found many good links, but this probably isn't the right place for them.

JohnGH (talk) 19:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging[edit]

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Broken link[edit]

The link to the recipe on Merseyside Today is dead and I can't find it so I have replaced it with a recipe on the BBC website. Tony Corsini (talk) 08:39, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Circular Argument developing ? - Norwegian -> English -> German -> ?[edit]

This is merely a comment. I have not researched the facts or for that matter read the article and its discussion too closely.

My initial thought is that maybe there is a circular argument developing. Scouse has an origin as none English term becoming common in English usage in Liverpool area. Initially from term similar to lobscouse possibly Norwegian. German term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus then comes from the English term.

Which term came first and in what order does anyone know ? Would a German term be more likely to come from English than Norwegian, or indeed maybe come from somewhere else, or even be the origin of the Norwegian term.

As I said this is a question/comment. My only interest is that I currently reside in an area close to Liverpool, and so have an interest in reading about local matters. I am not trying to dispute or challenge any facts or statements. JohnH99 (talk) 19:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)