Talk:Serotonin/Archive 1

Archive 1

The structure

Is it just me or the two pictures at the beginning on the right side show two different structures?

Just corrected it

The one on the right was furfural. It's the example image in {{Chembox new}}—must have been a slip-up when the template was switched. Fvasconcellos 19:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

effects

Is it a excitory or inhibitory neurotransmitter? Where are the main targets? What kind of neurons are they? Which cortical layers are they in?

<you cannot really talk about serotonin as excitatoy or inhibitory. There are 14 different kinds of serotonin receptors some of which cause an increase in firing and some cause a decrease, and to complicate matters further, this is often dependends on the location of these receptors in the brain>

5-HT is generally referred to as a modulatory neurotransmitter. Most neurotransmitters can have opposite effects on the postsynaptic cell depending on the receptors activated, and generally talking about transmitters in such a black and white way is unhelpful. 5-HT mostly binds to metabotropic receptors, not gated ion channels and therefore its effects are more nuanced than eg. GABA or Glutamate. Povmcdov 16:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

what effects does raising the levels of serotonin have on a person's behavior[[Media:]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.200.20 (talk) 01:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I find this article very coy regarding the effects of seratonin on neurotransmission, mood, etc. This coyness is understandable in view of the potential edit war that could result from an attempt to improve things, but please will somebody more knowledgeable than myself at least make a reasonable stab at a consensus summary of research to date. There is so much speculation regarding this amino acid and it's effects that, in my opinion, it deserves better than it gets here. Dhatfield (talk) 14:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Neurotransmission, mood, etc? It depends on where the serotonin molecule is acting, read the 5-HT receptor article for more information regarding most of the questions you ask. --Mark PEA (talk) 18:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Serotonin in serum as tumor marker

Serotonin in serum is a known tumor marker for carcinoids. Could someone add something on this? I don't think I have the necessary expertise, but this is one of the few areas of medicine where serotonin is actually of direct and proven relevance. Thanks! Jan

Spelling

Google has many articles for both seratonin (with an "a") and serotonin ("o" twice). Are these two different things? Or just a spelling variant?

SEROTONIN is correct!

P.S. Some scientists claim that all "serotonin-vs-depression" research has been sponsored and pumped up and distorted for the benefit of marketing Prozac and Paxil, etc. Indeed, the claims about 5-HT on the net multiply daily and it is hard to sift science fact from wishful thinking and off-the-cuff models :)

P.P.S Note sure if this is a valid place to say: Since a couple of weeks I'm eating a spoonful of Amaranth/Quinoah/Topinambur mix every morning and the effects are _awesome_. I can very precisely feel the effect and it's just awesome. Better than any medication I ever took, and yes, I was on various antidepressants. This natural mix of grains does wonders to me.

In answer to the question before (remember to sign!), not really the right place, but I'll tell you something else that may work, Rhodiola rosea (spelling?)

DarkestMoonlight (talk) 20:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

What has any of the above got to do with the Serotonin article? --Mark PEA (talk) 11:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Happiness

=are the precise mechanisms that this neurotransmiter uses to improve one's mood? This information seems quite essential and, despite that, I can't find the answer anywhere. Is it possible that no one actually knows how serotonin _really_ works? Or, if some one actually knows, it would be nice to add the information to the Wikipedia article.

As best I understand it, depression happens when a person feels helpless, and the presense of serotonin acts as a subduer of will. So when a person's levels of serotonin are too low, they're busily mentally willing things they can't change and so are worsening their depression. So doctors hand out SSRIs like lollies to increase the levels of serotonin in peoples' brains under the assumption that low-serotonin is the cause of depression. Likewise, when levels of serotonin are too high in the brain, an individual feels so subdued that they feel out of control and can be made to feel depressed as a consequence. Why people with sky-high serotonin levels are often given SSRIs, and why doctors don't just ignore the line of the drug companies and give people advice on stabilising their serotonin levels by correcting their poor diets, removing their mercury fillings, and taking vitamin pills, is best left to the unquestional wisdom of modern medical science ;)

Serotonin depletion can doubtlessly affect the mind, see e.g "Cognitive inflexibility after prefrontal serotonin depletion.", Science. 2004 May 7;304(5672):878-80. But I've found no references to serotonin levels affecting "willpower" and I suspect there's a leap of faith here between neurology and high-level personality in "trying to change what you can't change". But I'd be interested to see paper references to this. EverGreg 13:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Any interpretation of an animal model of affective disorder involves a leap of faith. It's hard to say what, exactly, "willpower" is. One model that might come close to this, however, is the "learned helplessness" model of stress reactivity. This seems to be what the above user is referring to. In brief - organisms that experience an event that is severely and uncontrollably stressful, will later fail to try to escape from subsequent novel challenges. It looks like they have given up, or lost "willpower." During the initial stress, if an organism has control over the stressor (but everything else is the same), serotonergic activity is suppressed. Manipulations of serotonin in this model system have shown that its hyperactivity is both necessary and sufficient for the development of learned helplessness. A recent paper working with this behavioral model can be found in Nature Neuroscience 2005 8(3):365-71. Its intro should contain references to the early work on learned helplessness (which is beyond the scope of this comment ;) Rossmcd 1:13, 16 September 2007

Serotonin is also found in the gut and the blood stream. What are its functions there?

In fact, the mechanisms behind 5-HTs action on mood are unknown in detail. The neuroscience of mood is massively complex and science is only beginning to scratch the surface. Any suggestion (as above) that one neurotransmitter controls a particular aspect of consious thought is plain wrong. While I agree with the above posters comments about GPs often prescribing SSRIs inapropriately, their post tells more about how politicised this neurotransmitter has become than any real science.

The reason for its presence in the gut is that it is one of the major neurotransmitters in the enteric nervous system, which controls gut motility. It is synthesised in the enterochromaffin cells there and the receptors involved are the 5-HT₃ class. Its role here is the reason why many SSRIs have gastro-intestinal side effects. In the bloodstream it is mostly found in platelet granules. I think there is a role in clotting here, but I dont know what it is.Povmcdov 16:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

serotonin versus st johns wort

Can these two be taken orally at the same time? Why would a Medical Practioner use Fluoxetine instead of something else for depression?

taking serotonin orally to treat depression isn't very useful, as it won't cross the blood-brain barrier. You can take 5-hydroxytryptophan -- which does cross the blood-brain barrier -- and the body converts it to serotonin. Taking 5-hydroxytryptophan and St John's Wort at the same time would probably be a bad idea and medically dangerous. St John's Wort and Fluoxetine are both SSRIs, one natural, one man-made. The natural thing is probably safer. A medical practitioner would use Fluoxetine because most think of drugs first, foremost, and of little else in the treatment of depression. Not all depressed people have low serotonin though. You also need to keep in mind that there is some biological reason why a low-serotonin person's body is not producing enough serotonin. This issue should be addressed. Magnesium deficiency, hypothyriodism (potentially from selenium deficiency) should be considered, along with all the other possibilities.

St Johns Wort is actually a MAO inhibitor. It keeps serotonin levels high by inhibiting MAO (Monoamine Oxidase) which breaks down serotonin. Combining a substance that inhibits the natural enzyme (MAO) from breaking down serotonin, the a supplement like 5HT or a medicine like a prozac type SSRI can lead to Serotonin_syndrome.

Come up with a good reason why a uncertain dose contained in St Johns Wort would be safer than a pill containing a specified amount? Which, I might add, is pure. A medical professional uses Fluoxetine because it has a proven efficacy. Saying depression is caused by low-serotonin levels is a ridiculous over-simplification. 148.177.129.213 14:02, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

be forewarned that misusing 5-hydroxytryptophan supplementation is extremely dangerous.

Mixing St. John's Wort and and tryptophan is a theoretical danger, but there's little evidence of a clinical effect.

5-HTP - why not?

I was taking Wellbutrin to quit smoking. It helped my moods quite a bit. I stopped taking it after 8 weeks and noticed that I felt crabby and overwhelmed. So I tried taking 5-HTP, figuring that both chemicals increased serotonin, and maybe that was what made the difference. I must say that I feel much the same effect from 5-HTP, but without headaches. It's relatively cheap, made from a shrub, and makes me feel better.

But am I messing where I shouldn't be messing? Can pouring a little extra serotonin into my brain cause problems?

Italic textThe statement saying that 5-HTP and Wellbutrin work the same is incorrect. Wellbutrin widely considered to work specifically on the neurotransmitter dopamine, presumably by inhibitting dopamine reuptake by nuerons and leaving more available ready to fire away in the synaptic space. 5-HTP works on serotonin. Increases of either serotonin and dopamine can both make you feel good,which is why most recreational drugs are usually involved in alteration of amounts or both of these chemicals, but they are very different neurotransmitters. The key is not to just have more, but to have a good balance. You can definitely have too much of either chemical. Too much dopamine or not enough is now one of the things believed to be involved in some of the more serious psychiatric illnesses. Too much dopamine in certain areas of the brain is part of what causes schizophrenia. Too little is asscociated with Bi-polar disorder and OCD, and ADHD. Too much serotonin can make you very sick. see serotonin sickness.

Too little dopamine is very nearly the definition of Parkinson's Disease. So we give patients Sinemet (L-dopamine) to try to restore that, and sometimes too much gets restored, and we see your typical calm, almost stoical PD patient having schizophrenic-type hallucinations. Balancing doses can be tough, especially since the internal chemistry is a changeable thing.

5-HTP, I'm wondering the same thing

I'm trying 5-HTP. I've heard that it may take weeks to feel the effects much like an SSRI. I feel the effects of a 50mg cap within an hour or two.

I know that too much serotonin can be bad as well as too little. How much serotonin is average? And how much does a 50mg cap of 5-HTP add?

consult your doctors. Mike _{(T C)} 01:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Sleepiness

We should add a section about how it affects sleep patterns.

Finally, when you eat some foods--mainly carbohydrates--the level of "tryptophan," an amino acid in your blood, increases. Tryptophan is converted into "serotonin" in the brain. And guess what serotonin does. It makes you sleepy!
http://www.wsu.edu/DrUniverse/turkey.html

The serotoninergic system is known to modulate mood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus is implicated in the control of numerous behavioural and physiological functions. Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission has been proposed to play a key role in the aetiology of depression.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/serotonin.htm

The graph on the left shows how alertness varies through out the day in relation to the three circadian phase regulatory molecules. Serotonin and SAM both start off in relatively high concentrations in the height of the day, while melatonin is almost no where to be found. As the sun begins to set, the pineal gland recognizes that there is less and less light. Norepinephrine begins to bind to β-receptors in the pineal gland, and the pineal gland used the day time store of SAM and serotonin to manufacture melatonin Understandably, while melatonin concentrations rise, SAM and serotonin concentrations fall. Once the concentration of SAM is to low to make any more melatonin, melatonin levels start to drop off, and SAM is free to rebuild. When the pineal gland senses the coming of light, SAM is produced again starting a new daily cycle. The graph on the right is almost identical to the one on the left. The difference is that sleepiness is show as the affect on the mammal instead of alertness. The purpose of having two graphs was to show that high melatonin levels correspond to feelings of sleepiness, while high serotonin and SAM levels correspond to high levels of alertness.
http://dubinserver.colorado.edu/prj/jph/braincircadian.htm

That colorado site has a lot of good information. --Llbbl 20:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Questionable addition

"There have only ever been a hand full of cases of serotonin deficiency documented outside of research deigned to induce it. Inline with this line, it is very unlikely that depression caused by serotonin deficiency apart from in individuals with the most deficient diet (lacking tryptophan)." -- This was added anonymously, and seems unlikely to me. I am completely unknowledgeable, so I'm loath to remove it. Wnissen 02:57, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I've removed that addition because, as you suspect, it is factually incorrect. -Techelf 11:10, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Wnissen 13:33, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

effect on mood

does serotonin lift mood ? how about putting the answer to this in the article - thanks

Compare to the disease CarcinoidCarcinoid, are these patients more happy? 90.224.55.212 12:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid

Just wondering if it would be ok to delete the redirect from 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid to Serotonin and move 5_HIAA to 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid since there is an article about it now. Mike _{(T C)} 07:26, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Serotonin

Are there any foods that can help increase the Serotonin levels in the brain?

Anything sweet will release it, and it happens to be human instinct to reach for something sweet when angry; Chocolate particularly contains sizeable amounts of serotonin, grab some if you need a boost.

- Also, on this subject does ALL food release serotonin? I always seem to feel better after eating, regardless of whether it was sweet or not. 67.51.131.26 05:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

check out this AJCN article about carbohydrates. It's from 1988, but it shows how serotonin relates to carbohydrates. Of course, serotonin is not a vitamin or mineral found in foods, and even if it is digested, it can't pass through the blood-brain barrier, I read somehwere. So let's not jump on the chocolate bandwagon, especially since the speed in which a food increases serotonin levels is the same speed in which a person will 'crash'. The best foods are whole foods in their natural state, preferablly whole grains. Rhetth 16:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Although they're not foods I've read somewhere that both alcohol and cocaine can increase serotonin levels in the brain (I'm not clear on wether it can be synthisied from something in them or if they induce greater production) and that some people with low serotonin have been known to self-medicate with either, or both. Is this true or is it simply that they counteract some of the symptoms (anxiety in particular). Danikat 13:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

This paper [1], cite two papers showing that red wine induce the release of serotonin from the platelets in the blood and from the gut. However, rememeber that serotonin in the blood can't get into the brain directly, so this serotonin is perhaps more related to the irritation of the gastrointestinal tract. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by EverGreg (talk • contribs) 13:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Pharmacology section, mostly on MDMA etc

I am fascinated by MDMA and psylocibin's actions on the 5HT system, however, I do not think it is fair to push that aspect disproportionately. Perhaps a separate section on MDMA/psylocibin/LSD action on 5HT would be more appropriate.

---

Agreed. This section seemed to be quite choppy, and more about MDMA and MDEA than anything else. That discussion seemed to be trying to point out that one can better understand that action of serotonin through the experience induced by the modulation of the serotonin system such as psilocin/psilocybin, lsd, mescaline, and mdma. MDMA modulates more than just the serotonin system and releases so many other endogenous bioamines that this seems like a very messy example, which is why that section has been ammended so many times in order to catch exceptions. I've eliminated this part and added a "Psychedelic and Recreational modulation" section with a more narrowed scope and links to TiHKAL and PiHKAL for lists of other potentially serotonergic psychedelics. Ccroberts 03:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Serotonin and liver regeneration

^^ Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article?

http://www.postgenomic.com/paper.php?doi=10.1126/science.1123842

Citation needed

I have removed the following dubious paragraph:

===Deficiency===

Deficient (and sometimes, excessive) intake of various dietary minerals, drugs, and vitamins can lead to disturbed levels of serotonin via disrupting either the production or reuptake processes.

Cacycle 20:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Remeron and Lithium- Bad combination?

I have Bipolar disorder and have taken lithium for the past six years or so. Two weeks ago my doctor put me on Remeron for depression. We both had read that studies were showing SSRI's and tricyclics negatively affected bipolar disorder, and he had just come back from a conference on the subject where they suggested positive results from tetracyclics. I came back today, after two weeks of taking 45mg a day, with my depression symptoms returning along with severe sensativity to sound, abnormal aggression, anti-social behavior and disrupted sleep patterns. He took me off the Remeron and I'm getting my lithium level checked tomorrow, but he suspected that somehow the Remeron was preventing my body from absorbing the lithium, and that was somehow causing an excessive level of serotonin to build up at the nerve endings, causing the hypersensitivity. Does this make any sense to anyone?--Arkcana 02:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Dreams

I have found that increased serotonin increases the vividness of my dreams, sometimes leading to lucid dreams. I think there could be a a section on this as it as been thoroughly scientifically tested. 203.219.137.66 03:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

How do you know your serotonin levels? Many antidepressants have this side effect, but that may not be due to their effects on 5-HT levels. Povmcdov 17:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

(Yes, it does, serotonin is converted into melotonin in dim light. Increased melotonin gives more vivid dreams) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.246.247 (talk) 11:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

synthesis secton clarified

I cleaned up the biochemistry section adding more info on the TPH step of the pathway Povmcdov 18:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Difference?

What is the difference between H3N+ and N+H3 on the diagrams of the molecules please?--Light current 01:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It's the same. Cacycle 02:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah ! so why is it shown differently in the diagrams? I (being a non chemist) find it confusing--Light current 02:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Serotonin: One chemical?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was led to believe the term 'Serotonin' referred to a a _family_ of similar chemicals and not just one specific molecule (ie. similar taxonomy/terminology to 'Herpes'). Is this not correct?

150.101.161.160 12:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Serotonin is just another name for one chemical, 5-hydroxytryptamine. There are however different serotonin receptors (as mentioned in the article). Mark PEA 14:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Non-human serotonin

Which animals other than the human use serotonin as a neurotransmitter? What is the role of serotonin in these animals (if it is different from the human)? 193.171.121.30 10:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that seems to be spread throughout all species of conscious animals. Its necessary in CNS function. Even very simple worms use serotonin to navigate their world. Ccroberts 01:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

So is it found in all animals then? Would be good to have a source on this so we can say "Serotonin ... is a monoamine neurotransmitter synthesized in serotonergic neurons in the central nervous systems (CNS) and enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal tracts of all animals." (or 'most', or whatever it turns out to be). What other organisms might contain serotonin though? There are plants and mushrooms (as well as animals, including humans) that contain bufotenin (bufotenine), 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. Maybe some (or all) of these are making it by adding methyls to serotonin.--Eloil 06:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, found a bunch of examples of plants with serotonin:

BULG. J. PLANT PHYSIOL., 1997, 23(1–2), 94–102 Whole article available online. Mentions serotonin in potato, pineapple, banana, tomato, walnut. Mentions "protective" role of serotonin in plants, role in "adaptation to environmental changes", flowering, morphogenesis, ion permeability.--Eloil 06:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Serotonin is an ancient chemical. It developed very early, and has been re-used throughout evolutionary history. I added a section on Bacteria, Yeasts, Algae, and Parasites. Hope that's OK. Gastro guy 05:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

5-hydroxy-N-acetyltryptamine

would 5-hydroxy-N-acetyltryptamine (N-acetyl-serotonin) pass the Blood brain barrier, if so would it ditch it's acetyl and become serotonin like heroin does to become morphine?

Acetamides are not that fast hydrolyzed as acetyl groups for which specialized acetylesterases exist. It is a precursor for melatonin (it is normelatonin), so it will probably be methylated. Cacycle 04:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

What about 5-Acetoxy-serotonin?

5-Acetoxytryptamines as well as 4-acetoxytryptamines have been described as hydrolyzing rapidly, see also 4-AcO-DMT. Cacycle 13:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

so it would have an anti depressant effect like prozac

Prozac is an SSRI, it would more likely have an agonistic effect. --Mark PEA 20:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Like MDMA? or Like LSD?

No, excess serotonin in the gut and the brain is destroyed by monoamine oxidase after reuptake through reuptake transporters, so this will not work. Cacycle 13:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

SSRI Tolerance/downregulation

"Like many centrally active drugs, prolonged use of SSRIs may not be effective for increasing levels of serotonin as homeostasis may reverse the effects of SSRIs via negative feedback, tolerance or downregulation."

As far as I know, there has never been conclusive research demonstrating that SSRI tolerance actually occurs. At the very least, the above needs a citation before it is returned to the article. As for downregulation, that's a more complicated issue. Downregulation of postsynaptic 5-HT receptors does occur after SSRI treatment, but this is correlated with REDUCTION in depressive symptoms, not an INCREASE. It takes about 3-4 weeks for downregulation to occur in response to SSRI treatment--the same amount of time it takes for the antidepressant effects of the drug to kick in, despite the fact that the drug is active in the brain almost immediately after absorbtion. Counter-intuitively, it is thought that downregulation of 5-HT receptors might be the mechanism by which antidepressants produce their effects, though how or why this is so is still a mystery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.247.152.4 (talk) 08:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Citations needed for valvular disease section

I added {{Fact}} markups to that section. The section is well-written, but it needs to be verifiable. This includes the 5-HTP speculation - are there verifiable sources for the statement that "it is under some of the same scrutiny as actively serotonergic drugs" or is this speculation/original research? 208.102.122.87 (talk) 03:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Found Extensively

For instance, serotonin is found extensively in the human gastrointestinal tract (about 90%),[1] and the major storage place is platelets in the blood stream.

What does that 90% figure signify -- surely not that the contents of the gut are 90% serotonin. Found (at certain levels) in 90% of subjects? Found at some level by 90% of investigators who've looked for it?

The Indiana State University link in Note 1 only takes me (after redirection) to a "Medical Biochemistry Page" with links to more than 50 articles. If I knew enough about the subject to decide from the titles which of those articles I should be looking at, I probably wouldn't need a Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.244.129 (talk) 01:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, I believe that 90% of the total serotonin in the body is to be found inside enterochromaffin cells in the gut. Here's a source that says 80%, [2] so there's some leeway. Anyway, the gut makes most of the serotonin which winds up taken up into platelets, and later metabolized and excreted as 5-HIAA. SBHarris 04:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Seeking Clarification

Regarding the statement: "Levels of serotonin in the brain show association with aggression", which way is the association? I'm assuming low serotonin = aggresion. Or is it the opposite? LogicalOctopus (talk) 19:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, the article says "Serotonin is also found in many mushrooms and plants, including fruits and vegetables." as well as later it says, "Serotonin as a neurotransmitter is found in all animals, including insects." I think that pretty much covers everything. Can somebody be a bit more specific? LogicalOctopus (talk) 19:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I also find it confusing that the article states so many sources for serotonin, but then also states that it will not cross the blood-brain barrier. Can somebody expand and explain what sorts of factors DO affect the actual levels in the brain? In general I find this whole article rather difficult to follow and understand. Perhaps an entire rewrite is in order without so much technical jargon. Thank you. LogicalOctopus (talk) 19:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Making Serotonin Connections

I have been on SSRI's a number of times, prescribed by GP's & psychiatrists, to deal with a physical and psychological trauma. Nothing in my pathology has ever been tested to see if these drugs were necessary, simply the cause of the trauma was easily identified & those around me could not deal with my subsequent reaction to it. Anger & then depression. The anti-depressants made it easier for those around me to deal with my trauma, when these same people couldn't come to terms with it themselves. A number of years later, after a monitored cardiac arrhythmia showed no other abnormalities with my heart, my Mitral heart valve was discovered to be leaking - Mitral regurgitation. Subsequent to this I have had a laparoscopy, after years of diarrhea, dehydration, nausea & lower abdominal pain, that again could not be defined by any pathological tests. Low and behold a carcinoid tumor was found - much to the surprise of all doctors concerned. Then more recently an MRI was done to see if any of the recurring symptoms could be a result of Multiple Sclerosis. The neurologist, was almost 100% sure nothing would show up on the MRI. Much to his surprise he readily admitted, there were leisons, suggesting Multiple Sclerosis. The one common thread in all these conditions/situations is the presence of Serotonin, & it's known side effects. Yet in each situation, my complaints/ailments have been dealt with separately. As if each area of our bodies is governed individually like different parts of a car. We know enough about cars to identify faults caused by mechanical or electrical failure, as well as the cumulative effects these failures will have. Why then does the medical profession insist on treating us in such a compartmentalised way? It's wonderful that we can have people specialise in so many different areas of medicine & certainly there is no doubt but for this specialisation, we would not have had so many advancements in medicine or medical technology. But it seems the bigger picture - our whole bodies - is not looked at by these specialists/scientists in any large scale cumulative studies. I have seen mental health professionals gastrointerologists, cardiac specialists and neurologists as well as my GP. None of these medical professinals have looked at the bigger picture & picked up on the 'running motif' through all of these ailments - Serotonin. Are there other people out there that have similarly "connected" ailments? Are there any scientists or medical professionals that have done any research or studies into this? I am not wishing to 'bash' the medical profession or any one part of it, but just as a mechanic services the mechanical components of a car, an auto electrician the electricals & panel beaters the body, it is very easy in a car - a man made device - to see the implications of failure from one component & how if effects the rest, who in the medical or scientific research fields is looking at the implications of failures or anomolies of various parts of our bodies? OctagonalOstrich (talk) 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Serotonin'connection with osteoporosis

Recently The Times reported that serotonin was found relevant with osteoporosis. It seems that the more serotonin one have, the less dense one's bones were. The cause of extra serotonin was some mutations in genes. I'm not sure if it is verifiable enough to add to the Article. the page address is:Bone Finding May Point to Hope for Osteoporosis Dreamback1116 (talk) 03:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

No history?

I hate it when a Science articles gives no History clues. Science is an Historical event, discoveries need an historical context.

This is not just a wikipedia problem, it's a global problem with the teaching of science in our time...

Giacomo

(I'd supply the info, but I have no primary sources about this) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.80.132.51 (talk) 16:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Philips light therapy?

The section "Increasing serotonin levels" links to http://apollohealth.com/light_therapy_education.html (ref 57). Is this really necessary? Can we not link to a reputable source rather than a product ad? 195.241.69.171 (talk) 21:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

This reference is indeed bad. I been trying to look a bit through PubMed and change the text with citation to [3]. The bright light information could be made better. — fnielsen (talk) 11:17, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

It looks like someone took care of it. Kjnelan (talk) 05:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction tag

The section "Increasing serotonin levels" is marked with a contradiction tag and is in the backlog. I am totally unfamiliar with this subject and do not want to slaughter the article by making an uneducated edit. Can someone in the know take a look at that section and fix the contradiction, if any, and remove the tag? Thanks so much. Kjnelan (talk) 05:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)