Talk:Shakespeare's influence on Tolkien

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Shakespeare's influence on Tolkien/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: LunaEatsTuna (talk · contribs) 18:43, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

• Gimmie a few hours :) 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 18:43, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:02, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your fascinating articles! I have placed this article on hold for now and left my comments below. As always, please ping me once you have addressed my concerns. Thanks, 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 21:02, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

LunaEatsTuna: Many thanks for the comments, and the kind words. I think those are all done now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Nice work! Happy now to pass this article for GA status per the changes implemented. Congrats! 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 22:13, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio check

Earwig says good to go. Quotations used in-line with WP:COPYQUOTE.

Noted.

Files

All images are relevant, of acceptable quality, and copyright-free:

• File:Rackham elves.jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:King Lear by George Frederick Bensell.jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:MacbethAndBanquo-Witches.jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:Birnam Wood comes to Dunsinane. Illustration for Macbeth, 1912.jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:Oberon, Titania and Puck with Fairies Dancing. William Blake. c.1786.jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:Frederick Warde, Shakesperean actor (SAYRE 10565).jpg: valid public domain rationale.

Noted.

Prose

• "Tolkien disapproved in particular of Shakespeare's devaluation of elves" – I think we could wikilink elf here.

• Done.

• "J. R. R. Tolkien, a philologist and medievalist as well as a fantasy author" – reads awkwardly, how about something like "J. R. R. Tolkien, a philologist, medievalist and author of fantasy novels"?

• That would change the sense; reworded for clarity.

• Thanks.

• Tolkien's dislike of Shakespeare contains a lot of lengthy quotations compared to the rest of the article. This looks problematic as an encyclopaedia; could they perhaps be written in a more summarised style like Tolkien's interest in Shakespeare?

• There's only one of any great length, the Curry quote, and it's only 67 words, the core message from a 15-page article. The reason for quoting the scholars, and Tolkien himself (48 words), is to make clear in exactly what kind of way Tolkien disliked Shakespeare, as that sets the scene for how remarkable it is that he then goes ahead and uses Shakespeare repeatedly. The Curry quote is clear and descriptive, and it crystallizes the essence of Tolkien's discomfort. I don't think I could say it better; certainly not in fewer words; and not without the danger of close paraphrase. This is an instance of where an attributed and cited quotation is amply justified. I hope I don't need to explain why letting the reader hear Tolkien's own statement might be a good thing. In general, if we are visiting what scholars are saying about a topic, it's far preferable to let them speak for themselves, as their tone then comes across naturally with the content.

• Noted. As long as its only a single section than I have no complaints.

• The final sentence in the first image caption needs a citation.

• It's just a description of what is visible in the image, and the name of the illustration and the artist.

• Oh, I see!

• "Tolkien, in short, wanted" – is "in short" necessary here?

• Reworded.

• Not a huge problem but IMO the bullet points in King Lear are not entirely necessary.

• The point is that the scholar has enumerated these distinct points. Collapsing them into a paragraph would make them less clear.

• Fair enough.

• "Tolkien transforms two of Shakespeare's motifs from Macbeth" – wikilink motif (narrative).

• Done.

• Unlink Éowyn and Nazgûl in "Not by the hand of man" as they are already wikilinked in an above section.

• Done.

• "As he staggers forwards" – maybe a personal choice, but recommend "As the Nazgûl staggers forwards" to avoid ambiguity.

• Done.

• "Hopkins further likens the" – "likens" was used in the previous sentence; not a big deal but is any alternative word choice available?

• Let's try 'compares'.

• Looks good.

• "with Tolkien's Mirkwood, which" – wikilink Mirkwood.

• Linked.

• "in which play and novel are set" – missing a the?

• Added.

• "for the Ents' Fangorn forest;" – what does Fangorn mean here?

• A placename, linked.

• "but that little that Tolkien did was an accident" – I may be stupid but I cannot seem to grasp what this line means?

• Reworded.

• "As soon as he thinks his father dead" – should be "As soon as he thinks his father is dead"

• Done.

Refs

All sources are RS. Passes spotcheck—no concerns with primary refs 3, 5, 7, 8, or refs 3, 6, 7 or 14. Note I selectively chose to spotcheck references which I had access to (as opposed to my usual of randomly selecting them).

• Noted.

• Ref 2 appears to be a dead link.

• Updated URL.

Other

Tables, short description, navs, other templates and cats good.

• Noted.

• Recommend adding WP:ALT text where possible if you do not mind.

• OK, added.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 15:08, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that despite J. R. R. Tolkien's dislike of Shakespeare, he was influenced by his work? Source: The entire article really.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Euphorbia kaokoensis

Improved to Good Article status by Chiswick Chap (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 19:26, 6 February 2023 (UTC). Note: As of October 2022, all changes made to promoted hooks will be logged by a bot. The log for this nomination can be found at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Shakespeare's influence on Tolkien, so please watch a successfully closed nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Y Article is a GA (and the GA review has been done properly), article was nominated in time (became GA on 3 February, nominated 6 February), and article is within policy. AGF on the offline sources, as can't access them
• Y Hook is short enough, interesting, in the article (both explicitly and most of the article refers to it) and is well cited
• Y QPQ done
• Overall, this nomination passes, congratulations. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)