Talk:Smoky black
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How about this guy? Pitke (talk) 08:17, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- How do we know that he is smoky black? Countercanter (talk) 13:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- Indeed, there's no way to know. Mostly I was thinking that this horse could be used to illustrate what is meant by a "slightly off" colouring, or something that is hard to categorise by sight alone, not to even talk about identifying. I can't decide whether to call him a weirdly faded, weirdly red smoky black or a slightly murky, highly faded bay of some sort. Something as far fetched as a brown-based dun with cream and fading has crossed my mind. And of course there exists a possibility of a unique mutation as well. Say, what do you think he is? Pitke (talk) 14:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- Not even close, I'm afraid. Unless we KNOW the horse is tested as a smoky black, we should not even go there, it's Original Research. Frankly, a smoky black is, basically, black that might sometimes be prone to fading. It will only ever exist in horse breeds that carry the cream dilution. Thus it isn't wise to just go hunting. Apply Occam's Razor (the simplest solution is generally correct). Here, that horse you noted is a true bay with just a horribly crappy coat, possibly a shedding-out winter one. My blood bay looked almost that bad (only fatter!) when she was shedding out about this time of year... the dead hair bleaches out. Even blacks can look "off" For example, see the photo I just added. I absolutely know for a fact this horse is genetically tested to be a homozygous black with no cream dilution, but had poor nutrition the previous year and the photo, taken in early spring, showed her black coat all bleached out and about to shed. Same horse in the spring with proper nutrition is the butt shot second photo. Montanabw(talk) 23:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- Just have to continue the hunt. One day I will find something that both is and looks like smoky black =_= (le sigh) Pitke (talk) 06:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
- Not even close, I'm afraid. Unless we KNOW the horse is tested as a smoky black, we should not even go there, it's Original Research. Frankly, a smoky black is, basically, black that might sometimes be prone to fading. It will only ever exist in horse breeds that carry the cream dilution. Thus it isn't wise to just go hunting. Apply Occam's Razor (the simplest solution is generally correct). Here, that horse you noted is a true bay with just a horribly crappy coat, possibly a shedding-out winter one. My blood bay looked almost that bad (only fatter!) when she was shedding out about this time of year... the dead hair bleaches out. Even blacks can look "off" For example, see the photo I just added. I absolutely know for a fact this horse is genetically tested to be a homozygous black with no cream dilution, but had poor nutrition the previous year and the photo, taken in early spring, showed her black coat all bleached out and about to shed. Same horse in the spring with proper nutrition is the butt shot second photo. Montanabw(talk) 23:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- We could put that to music...but have you tried Flickr?? this little gal might be worth emailing the uploader to see if they would change the licensing on the photo to cc/gdfl or public domain so we could use it here. I think she IS a smoky black --half-arab, with a palomino non-Arab parent. The owners have no clue what they have, color-wise, unless they've tested her -- but I am betting that she's not bay (no red tones at all), AND what they call her being "born grullo" is exactly what black Arabians do -- they are born mousy-buckskin looking and often don't shed out black until they get past that icky pot-bellied yearling stage. The filly has a palomino parent and not a dun parent, so if she has any dilution, it's cream. Though her sire is bay, a bay that is heterozygous for agouti can throw black, so it is definitely genetically possible that she's a sooty black. In spite of what her owners say on the page, she ain't a buckskin, either! her darkened coat pattern is wrong -- see CC's sooty (gene) article for a photo of a sooty buckskin. I'm betting she sheds out black, then bleaches out fast. Classic, really... Montanabw(talk) 20:46, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
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