Talk:Ta'abbata Sharran/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Alanna the Brave (talk · contribs) 23:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I'll be reviewing your article. Comments to come over the next few days. Alanna the Brave (talk) 23:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

All right -- I think it's very close to passing: it's stable and neutral, with excellent writing and generally solid citations. Images are relevant and properly tagged. I spot-checked some sources and scanned with Earwig's Copyvio Detector, and I have found no copy-vio issues. However, there are a few things that could use tightening up (or further explanation), and I'll list them below:

Name

The paragraph structure feels a little odd in this section -- I'd suggest adjusting the two paras by shifting everything starting with "There are a number of traditional accounts..." into one paragraph, just so that all the stories/speculation about the name origin are organized together.

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 09:14, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Life

What exactly is a su'luk poet? Were there many Arab brigands who wrote poetry? How did this become considered a specific school/tradition of poetry? I think the concept is really interesting (I can't think of a similar Western counterpart), and it's worth adding another sentence or two to give the reader some more context.

Added some info. --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Ta'abbata Sharran's date of death: most of your sources look solid, but I'm wondering about this mysterious "Poetic Encyclopedia". Your citation says it comes from the "Abu Dhabi Department of Culture and Tourism", which may or may not be the most authoritative of sources. Can you confirm whether it's a good source (or replace/supplement it with something else)?

Good point! Whoever wrote that encyclopedia was probably just guessing. I found a discussion of the issue in Lyall, removed the encyclopedia and added this text: The dates of Ta'abbata Sharran's life are not known. Based on personal names which occur in poems attributed to him, he likely lived in the late 6th century or early 7th century CE. --Cerebellum (talk) 09:14, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Qasida Qafiyya

You've included an interesting note about Arabic poem titles, but I'm wondering if the explanation could be made clearer by tweaking the wording slightly: instead of "by the letter in which they rhyme", I'd be inclined to say "by the letter with which they rhyme".

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clarify: are you saying the Qafiyya may be a collection of Ta'abbata Sharran's verses compiled by later editors? That sentence currently reads like it could be a collection of other poets' verses.

Fixed! --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"This poem follows the traditional structure of the qasida" --> what is the traditional structure of a qasida? Very brief description?

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Qasida Lamiyya

The first two sentences here feel rather disjointed: after calling this poem one of Ta'abbata Sharran's "major works", you subsequently note that its authenticity is "doubtful". How can it be his major work if we don't think it's actually his own work? I would suggest rephrasing to say that it is CONSIDERED one of his major works (perhaps clarifying who considers it so), BUT/HOWEVER its authenticity is doubtful.

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other work

You state that after killing the ghul, Ta'abbata Sharran "spent the night on top of her". What does this mean? The wording suggests something sexual in nature, but if you just mean that the poet sat/slept on top of this dead ghul all night (quite peculiar enough!), then you should clarify this.

I don't know what this means! Suzanne Stetkevych says that the phrase used is "in Arabic, as in English, ambiguous." --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The direct quotation "Two eyes... the back of a dog" should have an inline citation immediately afterward.

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If Sulayma Says to Her Neighbor Women is an individual poem (and not a book), it should be enclosed by quote marks instead of italicized.

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

I think you need some additional inline citations to clarify where the summarized/paraphrased info comes from (not just the block quotes). I recommend adding the relevant citation to the second-last sentence before the quotation (e.g. "The author is unknown but is typically taken to be either Ta'abbata Sharran's mother or the mother of another su'luk, al-Sulayk bin al-Salaka [ar]").
You've provided some interesting summaries of how ancient writers remembered or included Ta'abbata Sharran in their own work, but I'm left wondering about his modern legacy. Do more recent writers or scholars have anything to say about his work? Why is he considered notable today?

Done --Cerebellum (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

To clarify: what is the difference between the "Traditional" and "Contemporary" sources here? Both sections include older sources published in the early 20th century, and both sections include compilations/translations of traditional Arabic poetry, so I'm not certain what the purpose of this distinction is.

Combined the sections. --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do the Lyall (1918b) and Nicholson (1900) sources have vol/issue numbers?

No but they are identified by month and year on JSTOR, I added that information. --Cerebellum (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you have any questions! I look forward to your response. Alanna the Brave (talk) 17:00, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, this is a great review!! I really appreciate the feedback and I'll make the corrections as soon as I can. --Cerebellum (talk) 08:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Final comments

@Alanna the Brave: I think I've made all the needed corrections, please take a look and let me know what you think! --Cerebellum (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking excellent Cerebellum -- I think your edits/expansions have made the article much clearer and more informative. I did another read-through, and I noticed one final issue: the lead mentions that Ta'abbata Sharran lived near Ta'if (nation uncertain??), but this fact is not repeated or cited anywhere else in the article. Once the omission is fixed, I think this article will be good to go. Alanna the Brave (talk) 00:45, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alanna the Brave: Good catch! Added a source in "Life", and also a map showing the location of Ta'if. I'm not sure if it's really helpful, feel free to remove if it's not. --Cerebellum (talk) 06:00, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Cerebellum: Perfect -- I like the map. I made one last copy edit to the lead, just for readability purposes, but I'm happy to pass the article as GA now. Congrats! Very nice work. Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:15, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]