Talk:Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand)

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On 11 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved. The result of the discussion was Moved to Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand).

Article title

I suggest changing the title of this article to: The New Zealand Criminal Cases Review Commission - Te Kahui Tatari Ture. Most New Zealanders speak English and so this would make it easier for the average punter to find. Also when the title Criminal Cases Review Commission is entered in the search bar it leads to the CCRC in England. The Commission in New Zealand is colloquially known as the CCRC (not Te Kahui Tatari Ture) - the same as it is in England. There needs to be a disambiguation page. Clooless (talk) 22:17, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand). Consensus developed on the an alternate proposed title Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand) during the course of discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 17:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Te Kāhui Tātari Ture Criminal Cases Review Commission → ? – As per @Clooless I think that having the English text placed before the Māori text or the removal of Māori text in the title would be more in line with what other crown entities with Māori names do on there Wikipedia articles such as New Zealand Law Commission and Commerce Commission which have their Māori names in the infobox and lead section rather than the title. I am not confident about this though, so I would like someone else to comment on this.

(Originally this request was for the page to be renamed to "The New Zealand Criminal Cases Review Commission - Te Kahui Tatari Ture" but I have decided to edit the request and change it to a question mark as other suggestions in the comments were better)

CoderThomasB (talk) 10:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Propose alternative: I think the appropriate move would be to Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand), disambiguated from the UK entity of the same name (and with an appropriate hatnote on Criminal Cases Review Commission). Criminal Cases Review Commission appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME based on my assessment of news articles over the last few years; this isn't like Waka Kotahi or Oranga Tamariki where the Māori name for a New Zealand organisation is the common name. Secondary sources either don't mention the Māori name, e.g. [1] [2] [3] or mention it as a "also known as", e.g. [4]. In terms of the WP:CRITERIA, it's concise, precise, natural, recognisable and consistent with similar articles (e.g. Electricity Authority (New Zealand), Ministry of Health (New Zealand)). Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 08:23, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your proposal, but don't know if it would be acceptable to change my original request. There doesn't seam to be anything in WP:RMCM about changing a request. CoderThomasB (talk) 04:24, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @CoderThomasB. I'm not sure of procedure either, but I expect it's OK to leave the original request as is, and whoever closes the move request can take your comment (and anyone else's views) into account. Hopefully someone can come along and tell me if I'm wrong, though! Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 20:35, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is fine to restate the move proposal, and I think in this case it might just be best to change the target page to a question mark, as is typical for move requests that seek to find the best target by discussion. (See WP:EXPLICIT). — HTGS (talk) 22:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd oppose the move as proposed, but I'm neutral on chocmilk03's proposal. When the full name of the commission is used, it seems to generally be with the te reo name first - see their website, the website of the NZ government, the police association and the Citizens Advice Bureau. With that said, there's definitely less grounds for the full title here than other govt departments which use te reo in their name, so I'm not as opposed to the latter suggestion compared with the original proposal. My personal preference is that the current title is better as natural disambiguation than parenthetical, but that's just me. Turnagra (talk) 01:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input, @Turnagra. I'd agree with you that the te reo name should be first, if both are being used, since the majority of sources which use the dual name have the te reo name first. And if we were to keep the dual name for this one (perhaps on the basis that it provides natural disambiguation), I'd suggest adding a separator of some kind as with some of the sources, e.g. Te Kāhui Tātari Ture – Criminal Cases Review Commission, just for clarity and readability. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 01:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'd be happy with adding a separator such as what you've proposed if we end up keeping it as is. I should also note that I'd be strongly opposed to adding "The New Zealand" to the start of it as proposed, too. Turnagra (talk) 01:33, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per Chocmilk03, I think if the page is to be moved, it shouldn’t just be a reordering of languages. I would consider New Zealand Criminal Cases Review Commission, as a slightly more natural disambiguation but that doesn’t seem to have any use, so Criminal Cases Review Commission (New Zealand) gets my !vote for now. It at least seems that that name is at least in use (per Choc’s examples), and is of course shorter and a little easier to roll off the tongue. — HTGS (talk) 22:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll support @Chocmilk03's proposal but this one is good as well. Killuminator (talk) 15:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support either of the above proposals --Spekkios (talk) 23:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.