Talk:Zenith of Iron Age Shetland

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 August 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Accuracy[edit]

This article is pretty misleading. This site is not already on the Tentative List. It is one of 38 applicants to be considered for the Tentative List, which is the list from which sites can then be considered for listing over the next 5-10 years. Rather than trying to explain this process in this article, it should simply direct readers to List of World Heritage Sites of the United Kingdom#Tentative list for a proper explanation. MickMacNee (talk) 16:16, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article was started this morning. It is likely to be in continual process of improvement and amendment for a month. This is already now made clear. Ben Mac Dui 16:21, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter when it was started. There was no excuse for beginning it with such an error in the first place, it was already fully explained and referenced in the article about the nominations. MickMacNee (talk) 16:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's try to get on the same page here. This is not as straightforward of a topic as would be desirable and the nature of the article is emerging as it goes along. Yes, applications to join the T List are not the same as being on the List and that should have been clear from the outset. However, it is not clear from some of the press reports what is going on. See for example The Herald & Courier, which both refer to "Six Scottish sites in bid for world heritage status" implying, but not stating that the Cairngorms has dropped out. Sometimes what isn't being said is as interesting as what is, although this is by definition outside of the scope of WP:RS. The source for the applications does not refer to this issue so far as I can see, hence (in part) the original confusion. Ben Mac Dui 18:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

LAWHF[edit]

It would be helpful if you could say more about why this "very much looks like WP:OR to me". OR by whom and into what? Historic Scotland are clearly involved with them. Ben Mac Dui 07:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By you and into the relevance of it to this article. You found this organisation which states it helps with WH applications, and you have simply taken that statement, and added a brief bio of the org in here, and stated "Assistance to the Council is available from LAWHF". That looks to me like you drawing your own conclusions from things which are not explicitly stated in sources. It is just another in a long line of refs in this article which say not a thing about the 'crucible of iron age scotland', to go with the rest which say barely nothing at all, which is what you would expect from a non-notable topic. And there are presumably many different organisations that could be of assistance, there is no reason to list them all here, and they certainly haven't been either, which begs the question as to why just LAWHF has been highlighted. Yet more issues this article has. And I've still yet to see a source that says 'the Council' are responsible for the application either, or details what role Historic Scotland plays either. MickMacNee (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Needless to say I am not in agreement, but thank-you for clarifying your position. Nor am I insensitive to your critiques. There clearly comes a point at which encyclopedia writing becomes investigative journalism. I believe I have scrupulously avoided that, but that is just my opinion, there is the obvious potential for grey areas and I am not going to deny that, over and above my interest as an editor, that I have a curiosity about exactly what is going on. I'll get back to you about Historic Scotland etc. later. Ben Mac Dui 17:39, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

An overview of Historic Scotland's role is provided here. I note that they say that "Scottish Ministers identify and put forward sites to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport for nomination". This could be interpreted as meaning that Hyslop has approved the latest applications to the Tentative List, although it falls short of saying that outright. Similarly, Hyslop's involvement is hinted at here. In answer to a written question Hyslop stated that "An official from Historic Scotland attended the Local Authority World Heritage Forum (LAWHF) Spring Meeting in Bath on 26 March 2010," although nothing is mentioned about what they spoke about save the 2012 Cultural Olympiad Project. See this. It would be wrong to ascribe motive, but the precise scope and nature of LAWHF's efforts are somewhat difficult to ascertain. Ben Mac Dui 17:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Article out of date[edit]

This article is very out of date. The name is now the Zenith (not crucible) of Iron Age Shetland and the site is now only cited under cultural criteria iii and iv, with reference to storm petrels etc dropped. See [1]. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:40, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]