Talk:The Queen of Versailles (musical)

Precedence demands consistency in attributing source material for musicals.

@Ssilvers comments for why he/she twice removed the name of the director, Lauren Greenfield, of the original documentary film, The Queen of Versailles, that forms the basis and title for the musical, The Queen of Versailles (musical), flies in the face of existing and widespread Wikipedia precedence for pages about musicals that are principally based on books, films, screenplays, and/or animated features, which almost always includes the names of the authors, writers, directors, creatives, or companies responsible for the originating (based on or adapted from) source materials being used by the musical in question.

To claim that Lauren Greenfield is any less notable than John Waters, Mel Brooks, Rosalind Wiseman, Geoff Deane, Colin Firth, Victor Hugo, George Bernard Shaw, Alice Waker, Gregory Maguire, L. Frank Baum, and Amanda Brown, to mention but a few of the originating creatives principally named as responsible for providing the source material that formed the basis of the resulting musical, does not hold water in this case, and can be best described as arbitrary and in conflict with existing precedence.

It should also be noted that Lauren Greenfield and her documentary crew are also featured as actual characters and story elements within the musical itself, but that is besides the point being made above. This fact should probably be added to the section pertaining to how the musical is structured and told.

SOME WIKIPEDIA EXAMPLES DEMONSTRATING PRECEDENCE SUPPORTING INCLUSION OF THE ORIGINATING CREATIVE BEHIND A MUSICAL:

Hairspray is a 2007 musical romantic comedy film based on the 2002 Broadway musical of the same name, which in turn was based on John Waters's 1988 comedy film of the same name.

The Producers is a musical comedywith music and lyrics by Mel Brooks, and a book by Brooks and Thomas Meehan. It is adapted from Brooks's 1967 film of the same name.

Mean Girls is a musical with a book by Tina Fey, lyrics by Nell Benjamin, and music by Jeff Richmond. It is based on the 2004 Mark Waters film of the same name, which was also written by Fey and was in-turn inspired by Rosalind Wiseman's 2002 book Queen Bees and Wannabes.

Anastasia is a musical play with music and lyrics by Lynn Ahrens and Stephen Flaherty, and a book by Terrence McNally. Based on the 20th Century Fox Animation 1997 film of the same name, the musical adapts the legend of the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia, who was rumored to have escaped and survived the execution of the Russian Imperial family.

Based on the 2005 British film Kinky Boots, written by Geoff Deane and Tim Firth and mostly inspired by true events, the musical tells the story of Charlie Price.

The Lion King is a stage musical with music by Elton John, lyrics by Tim Rice, and a book by Roger Allers and Irene Mecchi, with additional music and lyrics by Lebo M, Mark Mancina, Jay Rifkin, Julie Taymor, and Hans Zimmer. It is based on the 1994 Walt Disney Animation Studios' film of the same name.[1]

Les Misérables (/leɪ ˌmɪzəˈrɑːb(əl), -blə/lay MIZ-ə-RAHB(-əl), -⁠RAH-blə, French:[le mizeʁabl]), colloquially known as Les Mis or Les Miz (/leɪ ˈmɪz/ lay MIZ), is a sung-through musical with music by Claude-Michel Schönberg, lyrics by Alain Boublil and Jean-Marc Natel, and a book by Schönberg and Boublil, based on the 1862 novel of the same name by Victor Hugo.

My Fair Lady is a musical with a book and lyrics by Alan Jay Lerner and music by Frederick Loewe. The story, based on the 1938 film adaptation of George Bernard Shaw's 1913 play Pygmalion, concerns Eliza Doolittle, a Cockneyflower girl who takes speech lessons from professor Henry Higgins, a phonetician, so that she may pass as a lady.

The Color Purple is a musical with music and lyrics by Brenda Russell, Allee Willis, and Stephen Bray, based on the 1982 novel The Color Purple by Alice Walker and its 1985 film adaptation.

Wicked is a musical with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz and a book by Winnie Holzman. It is a loose adaptation of the 1995 Gregory Maguire novel Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, which is in turn based on L. Frank Baum's 1900 novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and its 1939 film adaptation.

Legally Blonde is a 2007 musical with music and lyrics by Laurence O'Keefe and Nell Benjamin and a book by Heather Hach. It is based on the novel Legally Blonde by Amanda Brown and the 2001 film of the same name. 216.99.24.1 (talk) 22:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With no comment on the substantive point here, but we don’t work on ‘precedence’ here, but consensus, guidelines and policy. We also don’t ‘demand’ anything, but we do discuss things like adults to reach that consensus. - SchroCat (talk) 04:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding adjectives like "award-winning", see WP:PEACOCK and WP:PROMO. I don't mind mentioning the director of the documentary, but probably not in the Lead section, since a director of a documentary is not the same as the author of a book or writer of a play. If Greenfield and crew feature significantly in the plot of the musical, they should be mentioned in the Synopsis section. Note that the Siegels sued Greenfield over the documentary. -- Ssilvers (talk) 12:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Queen of Versailles is an original documentary film, which makes its director the equivalent of an author writing an original book or play. Zero difference creatively. To state otherwise indicates a lack of understanding of what goes into the making of an original documentary film, and the critical creative role that the director plays in making it. The musical's own website states that it is "Based on the wildly astonishing documentary directed by award-winning filmmaker Lauren Greenfield, The Queen of Versailles". Most news articles and reviews about the musical also state the same. Numerous statements by the musical writer, composer, and lead actress states the same. All credit Lauren Greenfield with creating the original documentary that the musical is based on. In fact, the official (and legally cleared) poster being used by this very Wikipedia page includes this same credit at the very top of the billing block, "Based on Lauren Greenfield's documentary film "The Queen of Versailles"".

Mentioning a lawsuit from 2012, which was soundly defeated by Lauren Greenfield and the Siegels compelled by the courts to pay out substantial damages to her, is a non sequitur that has no relevance to these discussions about whether or not Greenfield deserves to be named as the single originating creative behind the documentary that has given rise to the musical. She is exactly the same as authors/writers who are named in relation to other musicals that have been based on their original works. - Artists2024 (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]