Talk:Trpanj
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Lords of Trpaj
[edit]Lords of Trpanj section
I just made some changes to the Lords of Trpanj section. I was surprised to see the changes since they were done by a non signed in used, which is rather unusual for such a specific topic. The user's IP is 190.20.89.6 and others that I suspect are the same. I maintained most of your changes unless they were grammatically confusing.
You added the parents of Frano Diva Gundulic but then the relative clause about him being a marshal became confusing as it looked like his mother was the marshal? Although interesting I am not sure why it is important to name his parents on the page for the town of Trpanj? Could you tell me your reasoning if you read this please?
I did know where he died but the date of 1700 that you changed to 1717 is from what source? My source is city archives which are rather unlikely to be wrong although 300 years in the past everything is possible so I did not change that either. My sources also indicate that he in fact had no children even daughters. In Dubronik in those times there were no restrictions on women inheriting so his posessions would go to a nephew only if he were really childless. Anyhow I did not change that either but would like to know whrere the info comes from. The article about Trpanj as cited in references comes from the only official scientific book about the town so if other info is added it should be referenced so there is no confusion as to where it comes from.
Did you also add the picture of the family house? Lovely as it is I don't know why it was added as that house is not in Troanj so not really relevant.
Anyhow I hope you read this and drop me a line. I am always interested in talking with anyone that has info about Trpanj.
Hi!, i have a lot of information about the Gundulic´s genealogy, but in a old Austrian book, apear the Gondola lineage of Tyrol, with the Franz Gondola, the austrian marshall, the only question than have, is the roll of Franz Joseph Gondola, the Bishop, born in Vienna in 1711 and died in 1774, had the fiedscom?, because other Gondola, with the name Franz Anton, married with Maria Graffin von Grindmaul, give the fiedscom to Sigmund Dominik Gondola?.
For other side the second branch, Ghetaldi-Gondola, with the children of Sisko(Sigmund) Frano (1833-1899), Ivan (1835-1891) and Maria, the only question is? Which is the date and place of death of Maria Gondola, who born in 1837 (10.7)??????????? Ragusino.
Which´s the last Gondola who reside in Trpanj XX century, exist any descendant today???
Book wanted
[edit]Nekoji storoji dubrovacki pisci iz polovine XIX v. a prije toga u XVIII v. historicar Nijemac Kristijan Eugel tvrdili su, pogrjesno, ne znamo na osnovu cega, da je najposijedni Gundulic bio veoma zasluzni crkveni dostojanstvenik biskup Josip Frano Gundulic (Góndola)? Bio je sin Frana Siskova Gundulica i majke ne- Dubrovkinje ( cije nam je porodicno prezime nepoznato). Rogjen u Becu 1711 g. bio je do svoje smrti 5.III.1774 g. zupnik u Probstdorfu (Blizu Beca); nakon sto je bio posvecen za biskupa, imenovan je bio od Sv.Stolice apostolskim vikarom per septemtriomem i naslovnim biskupom od Tempe; k tome je bio i director i profesor becke bogoslovne fakultati.--- Bio je jedan od posijednjih muskih potomaka porodice Gundulica i bas po ocu praunik slavnog nam pjesnika “Osmanide”.
Un ovaj crkveni dostojanstvenik Josip Frano Gundulic nije bio najposijednji Gundulic- to je bio Sisko Dominio Gundulic, onom biskupu prvobratuced. Otac najposljednjeg Gundulica Sisko matej Gundulic, ozenjen Ursulom Frana Getaldica, imao je 4 sina, od kojih: najstarijega Siska Domenika, prije pomenutoga, te jos Frana, Frana i Incacija, Dziva Frana, i dvije kcerli: Katu, udatu, o kojoj ce ovdje biti govora, i Ursula, neudatu. Sisko Dominik Gundulic rodio se u Duvrovniku 6 februara g. 1712, ozenio se Franom Bunicevom 20 januara g. 1754. Pjesniku Osmanide bio je po ocu praunuk (Na temelju Matica zupnog ureda gra Dubrovnika iz XVII i XVIII v.). Ovdje pomenuta Kata, kci Siska Mateja i Ursule Getaldic 20 novembra 1740 god. Sisko Dominik Gundulic nije u svome braku imao potomaka, dok je sestra mu udata Getaldic imala sinove: Frana Augustina, rogjenog 30.XII.1743 g., o kome ce ovdje biti dalje govora, te Siska Dominika, i kceri: Mariju, Ursulu i Mariju Ursulu. Siska Dominika Gundulica dopala je i njega viseputa koja od mnogih sluzaba plemickih u republici, a vrsio je i mnoge druge poslove, sto ih njegov zavicaj davase svojim plemicima. Od carskog Beca dobi on velike pocasti i naslove: carskog komornika (cambelana( carskog dvornika. On se je ovim pocasnim naslovima uvelike ponosio te je uz svoje ime , i uz pocasni naslov grofa (comes) svetog rimskog carstva, uvijek vise manje potpuno ih isticao. Tako kad je koji put prisistvovao u svojstvu krsnoga kuma crkvenom obredu pri krstenju kojeg plemickog djeteta, pa kad je god. 1785 postavio nad onim grobom u kapeli Gundulica u sakristiji Male Brace novi nadgrobni natpis.
Evo nas i sa odgovorom na vazno pitanje, tko je bio sahranjen u obiteljoskok
grobnici Gundulica u kapeli Trojice (Sv.Trojstva). O tome srecom imamo jesnih
biljezaka u pomenutim katalozima registrima ukopa u dubrovakhoj franjevackoj
Crkvi. Tu su u prvom od tih kataloga registara zabiljezeni ovi clanovi porodice
Gundulica: 1) XII Marinko Gundulic, Isusovac, sahranjen 1.XII.1647 g. In
Sacrestia co li suoi parenti. Bio je glasoviti osnovala isisovackog kolegija u
Dubrovniku; 2) Dzivo Marina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.VIII g. 1650, in sacrestia.
To je bio glasoviti kronista; sin Marina Gundulic i Vice Tudisevic; 3) Marina
Gundulic sin Dziva Marinova Gundulic, sahranjen 23. V g. 1659, in sacrestia nel
suo sepolcro; 4) Dzivo Marina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.VIII g. 1661, in sacrestia;
5) Don Nikola Dziva Gundulic, sahranjen 15.II g. 1665, in sacrestia nel sepolcro
di Gondola; 6) Dom Sebastijan Gundulic, sahranjen 8.II g. 1666 nel sua Capella;
7) Marin, sin Dziva Marinova Gundulic, sahranjen 11.V. g. 1666 in sacristia; 8)Dom Sebastijan Gundulic, sahranjen 29.V.g.1684, nella Sacrestia Grande nella capella si Sig.ri Gondula; O njemu je zabiljezemo ovdje i to, da je bio ubijen od hajduka kod sela Osonika; 9) Orsat
Nicolina Gundulic, sahranjen 21.IV g. 1687, in sacrestia nella Capella di
Gondola; 10) Pavo Nokolina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.III g. 1688 nella capella di
Gondola in Sacrestia. Nacon skoro 100 godina iza ovog ukopa u onoj cakristiji
one god. 1688, sacuvana nam je u drugoj i trecoj biljeska. Ta glasi, da je dana
22 februara g. 1785 preminula te ukopana sutradan Frana rogj. Bunic, supruga
najposljednjega Gundulica, Siska Domenika Siskova Gundulica. Ta biljesca glasi u
Il knjizi kataloga registara: 22 Fre. O Morj la Sig.ra Madama Francisca Moglie
dellÈccelenza Sigismondo Góndola, ed il gior.o seg.te fu sepulta con u solemne
funerale nella pro.a capella Della SS. Ma trinita nella proa.a sep.a--- 1785. U
Ill onih knjiga bilsjeska glasé ovoko: Febbreio ---- 22 moej Fran(ces)ca Madama dellÈcc.mo Sigismondo Góndola, ed il gior.o seg(uen)te fu sepulta nella Capella della SS.ma trinitá nella proa.asep.ra---1785.
Je li bulo u onoj grobnici ukopano jos drugih osoba iz one grane porodice
Gundulica? Sigurno je da ih je bilo, a to su sigurno bili i oni Gundulici, koje
smo prije spomenuli, iz XVI Rijeka, a za koje nijesu nam sacuvani katalozi
registri ukopanih ( koji su sacuvani od XVII v.) U ovaj grob Gundulica ukopana
su i malena. Ragusino
Frano Gundulic: Zadnji potomak slavene loze Gundulica, Frano Gondola bio je gradonacelnik grada Dubrovnika i predsjednik srpske stranke. Zbog toga, Srbi mu, kako u Trebinju tako i u Dubrovniku trebaju dignuti "bistu". U Dubrovniku se danas to moze napraviti jedino u okviru srpske pravoslavne crkve koja se nalazi u starome gradu. Pravljenjem biste Frana Gundulica, na kojoj bi pisala njegova djela.... i da je bio veliki srpski patriota, predsjednik srpske stranke, gradonacelnik Dubrovnika, da je dao da se pravoslavna crkva podigne u njegovom vrtu, itd. Na ovaj nacin bi neuki dubrovacki kmetovi koji bi prolazili pored crkve bili upoznati sa historijom Dubrovnika.
Gondola, Grafen Familie. Ein aus Hetrurien entsprossenes, spater in Lucca, Ragusa und Tirol sesshaft gewordenes Grafengeschlecht, welches 1719 in Nieder-Oesterreich das Incolat erlangte. Graf Johann Baptist, k.k General-Feldmarschall-Lieutenant ([i]Frano Dzivo Gondola ,c.1632-1700 Generalfeldwachtmeister, 27.7. 1682 and Feldmarschall-Leutnant?), (Kinder von Giovanni Gondola-Ivan Gundulic ) war inszweiter Ehe vermahlt mit Maria Victoria Grf. V. Strozzi(Octavia) . Aus dieser Ehe entsprossten zwei Sohne, die Grafen Franz und Sigismund. Graf Franz, gest.1717, [i]k.k. General der Cav. Stifter des Gondolalaischen Fideicomisses in Tirol und Osterreich, binterliess aus seiner Ehe mit Maria Anna Grf. V. Sereny, vur eihe einzige Tochter, Gfr. Johanna welehe sich mit ihrem Vetter, Sigismund, vermahlte, s. Unten, Graf Sigismund aber, fruher in k. Span., spater in k.k Kriegsdiensten, hatte aus seiner Ehe mit Catharine Marchese de Nalé vier Sohne, die Grafen Franz, Johann Baptist, Hieronymus und Sigismund den Jungeren. Graf Franz (II). Herr der Herrschaft Wangen in Tirol und des von dem Bruder seines vaters, Franz I., bestimmten Fideicommisses in Tirol u. Niederosterreich, wurde 1719 unter die nenen Niederosterr. Herrenstand-Geschlechter aufgenommen. Aus seiner zweiten Ehe miteiner Grafin v. Khuen stammtenzweiSohne, von welchen Anton Sigismund im Flor seines Lebens unvermahlt, Franz Joseph aber Bischof zu Tempe, Domherr u. Domeustus zu Wien, 1774 starb. Graf Johann Baptist, Herr auf Wangen, war mit Maria Franziska Grf. v. Khuen vermahlt, welcher Ehe Graf Anton, k.k Kamm. U Fidei-Comiss Inhaber zu Wangen, zu Wangen, entspross, welcher, verm mit Josepha Graf. V.Rindsmaul, 1762 ohne Nachkommeschaft starb. Graf Hieronymus, in k. Span. Kriegsdiensten, setzte ebenfalls den Stamm nicht fort, vom Grafen Sigismund dem Jungeren aber, verm. Mit Johanna Grf. v. Gondola, s. Oben, stammte nebst mehreren Kindern Graf Sigismund Domenicus, Herr zu Wangen etc., k.k Kamm., welcher 1764 das Fideicomiss antrat und sich mit Franzisca Grf. v. Bona vermahlte. Ueber die etwaige Nachkommenschaft desselben, so wie uber zwei Bruder, welche 1797 noch gelebt haben sollen, konnte Wissgrill nichts ermittein.Er starb kinderlos als der letzte Mannssprosse 1890, nachdem er seinem Neffen Franz de Ghetaldi zu seinem Erben eingesetzt mit der Bedingung, dass dieser seinen Namen und sein Wappen fortfuhre; des letzteren Sohn Sigismund Ghetaldi-Gondola (podestá von Ragusa) erlangte ddo. Wien 2.5.1818 eine Bestatignung seines altererbtan Adelstandes un ddo. Wien 6.12.1845 die Fhrnwurde [/i][/i] Wissgrill, III. S. 360 und 361.
Need Help
[edit]I would like to improve this article by introducing more citations, references & sources, but need help. Sir Floyd (talk) 01:04, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
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