Talk:Ullage

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Recommed Merging with Ullage (rocketry)

I recommend merging this article with the article Ullage (rocketry). An ullage is an ullage whether it's the empty space in a wine cask or the empty space in a rocket's fuel tank. The Ulllage Rocketry article exists because of a merge between Ullage Rocket and Ullage Motor. But now that its subject is Ullage (rocketry) in general. It should be merged with Ullage.

Suggested outline for combined Ullage article Ullage 1)Wine 2)Rocketry 2a))Ullage Motor

If I don't receive any objections by June 15, I'll do the merge.

Jean15paul 16:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the terms are related but seperate, Ullage in casks refers to the empty portion in the cask, Ullage in rocketry terms refers to providing a means of ensuring that in a weightless environment rocket fuel is forced to the bottom of a fuel tank where the pump manifold is situated by imparting a small acceleration to the rocket. It is just a design feature that the same type of rocket motors were used for stage seperation as were used for fuel ullage. This distinction between the two uses of the word must be made.86.42.234.120 20:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC) Stoneill[reply]

Ullage in rocketry isn't the means of forcing the fuel to the bottom of the tank. An Ullage motor/engine maintain an ullage which is just the empty space at the top. The Ullage isn't the means, it's just the empty space at the top ... same as wine or any other closed liquid storage. Jean15paul 21:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From Ullage (rocketry) disscussion page

This article is the merger of ullage engine and ullage motor.

The following text was from ullage engine:

An ullage engine allows a liquid fuel rocket engine to start in space under weightless conditions. It provides a small pre-acceleration to settle fuel in the tanks before the main engine and fuel pumps start. The term "ullage" refers to the amount of empty space in a barrel of liquid. Ullage engines were first invented by Soviet engineers for the Molniia interplanetary launch vehicle in 1960.

The eight ullage motors of the Saturn V rocket used in the American Apollo program were located on the second stage.

The text from ullage motor didn't get changed as much.

I also copied the comments below by User:Toddbu to here from the talk page for ullage engine.

Mark Foskey 16:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Although ullage motors and ullage engines serve the same function, they can be of different designs. In most contexts, "ullage motors" use solid propellants and are therefore only fired once to push the propellants to the bottom of the tank. It appears that in the case of the Saturn V that they also used the term "ullage engine" separately to refer to the Auxillary Propulsion System (APS) which could operate in ullage mode on the 500 series version of the S-IVB (http://www.apollosaturn.com/s4b.htm). Compare this to the 200 series S-IVB on the Saturn 1b which used three solid ullage motors. The APS served as more that just a ullage engine, however, and provided RCS-like functionality for the S-IVB.

This article refers to eight ullage motors on the S-II, but page 11 of the SA503 Flight Manual (http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/pdf/sa503-flightmanual.pdf) says that there were just four. I think that the picture that accompanies this article has mislabelled the retro packages on the S-II, because there were four ullage motors and four retro rockets, which adds up to the eight motors that are labelled in the attached image. There is also an image on apollosaturn.com (http://www.apollosaturn.com/s143txt.htm) which clearly shows four ullage and four retro packages on the S-II.

If these articles are going to primarily reference the Saturn V ullage motors then it would be great if they included first-hand descriptions of the Apollo astronauts on their functions. There are many descriptions in many books where the astronauts refer to engine cutoff, in which case they were thrown forward in their seats, followed by the ignition of the ullage engines, which once again forced them back into their chairs. What happened to the astronauts was what happened to the fuel, and brings to life the action of the ullage motors.

A couple of other notes about ullage: ullage not only moves the propellants to the back of the tank so that they can be pumped, but the action of the motors can actually force the propellants into the plumbing of the engine. This is important because there's no lag time for the pumps to begin their action. It's nearly simultaneous with the ignition of the engines. Another note about ullage is that you'll sometimes see it refer to any propulsion which translates into positive movement in the z-axis. This is probably not a correct use of the term, but it's understandable given that ullage is obtained by initiating and sustaining forward momentum.

Toddbu 06:36, 9 April 2006 (UTC)toddbu[reply]

Recommed Merging with Ullage

I recommend merging this article with the article Ullage. An ullage is an ullage whether it's the empty space in a wine cask or the empty space in a rocket's fuel tank. This Ulllage Rocketry article exists because of a merge between Ullage Rocket and Ullage Motor. But now that its subject is Ullage (rocketry) in general. It should be merged with Ullage.

Suggested outline for combined Ullage article Ullage 1)Wine 2)Rocketry 2a))Ullage Motor

If I don't have any objections by June 15, I'll do the merge.

Jean15paul 16:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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