Talk:University of Muri

This article was nominated for deletion on 6 July 2022. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Sources??

What is the source for this story? This is a whole entry without any source or reference.warshy 15:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the relevant maintenance tag to the article. LukeSurl 15:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. warshy 15:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've got sources for the two quotes but am new to wikipedia and don't know how to put them in. Can you help me out?

This sounds good! I am too relatively new, but I am willing to work with you on these quotes you mention. Why don't you first post them here, on the talk page, and after we look at them we can discuss the best way to insert them into the main article/page? warshy 16:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great! All the quotes come from Gershom Scholem. The one about Eisler at the end comes from his "From Berlin to Jerusalem: Memories of my youth" pg. 129 which also mentions that he and Benjamin founded the U of M. The rest of the information comes from "Walter Benjamin: The story of a Friendship." which has its longest sustained discussion of the topic on pg.58. The first book is the 1980 Schocken edition the second is the 1981 JPS edition. Thanks a lot for your help and interest.

Hello 71.228.24.9! I'd suggest you associate this login id with a user name that may be easier to recognize and identify, something like a real user name, not just an IP number/adress. Then your Talk page also could be more identifiable (with some identifying traits) and addressable. I'll start working on incorporating the references you give into the main page. Thanks again! warshy 14:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tracked down the quote you refer to, I read it some time ago and it took a bit of time. In any case, it is in an essay titled "Walter Benjamin and his Angel" which is in the collection by Gerschom Scholem called "Jews and Judaism in Crisis" Schocken Books 1976, p.212 BenGL 23:42, 11 April 2007 RightO! Sorry about that, new like I said. Anyway, I'm BenGL.

Hello BenGL. I am Yuval Warshai, and I'm hoping I'll get some time to insert your references on the page sometime within the next two or three days. Thanks. warshy 11:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In rereading the article, the following sentence still sounds a bit obscure to me, and I think the references you give don't exactly cover the following quote:

In his essay Walter Benjamin and his Angel Scholem writes, "The guardian angel of the Kabbalah from the year 1921 has become the guardian angel of the University of Muri, in whose Transactions a "philosopher" and a "kabbalist"-- who in a traditional sense were neither a philosopher nor a kabbalist-- made the traditional university and its scholars the object of their derision."

Do you know the above essay by Scholem? Where was it published? Thanks. warshy 12:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just learned the cool way to edit only the specific header section and already puts the title there. My previous editings here were missing the correct Header/Link. And, after you're done you also sign, like this... warshy 15:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tracked down the quote you refer to, I read it some time ago and it took a bit of time. In any case, it is in an essay titled "Walter Benjamin and his Angel" which is in the collection by Gerschom Scholem called "Jews and Judaism in Crisis" Schocken Books 1976, p.212 BenGL 23:42, 11 April 2007

Wow! You're really on top with Scholem's quotes. This is really good. An article that had no quotes whatsoever has now at least three direct, very solid references. Now it's just add your references as footnotes on the text. That's what I'm planning on doing on the next day or so. Thanks a lot again! warshy 11:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ben, when you sign at the end of a note, you can use the link below on the edit page, where it says "Sign your name: ,' and then it has 4 tildes. Or if you just type four tildes, it puts your signature with a link to your own page. Just one of many tips I've learned over time with this wiki stuff. In any case, if someone doesn't point out to you certains things, sometimes it takes a long time till you realize... [carefull you have the cursor where you want your signature, because if the cursor by accident goes somewhere else while you're looking for the link, it sometimes goes at the top of the edited page. I've had this embarassing thing happen to me a couple of times until I learned to double check where the cursor is when I sign. wikistuff... or, wikiquirks.] warshy 11:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

BenGL, as you can see, I took your references and inserted them on the main article page. I also removed, therefore, the "unreferenced" tag. But what I did was really just build the reference section skeleton, with the places where each reference you mention must go. We still need to work on the book quoting in each reference, to bring it up to quoting standards. I have the publishing details of each of the books you mention at home, so I will still bring the three references now up to quoting standards for books and pages. Thanks, warshy 16:21, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Revival

- Warshy, of course it does. We are talking about a fictional university. It is very arrogant to simply delete things without explanation.

I've read the supposed "sources" now more carefully, and I have listened to the entire theatrical reprsentation of the supposed "Hannah Arendt" lecture on Jewish identity and the "Jewish Question," on Palestine and on the state of Israel. The whole thing seems to me to be an attempt at changing political perceptions through fictional/mock representations. Since changing the political realities of the Middle East by conventional means does not seem to be working, or to really have any chance of working in the near future, apparently some people are trying to do it by other supposed "fictional" means. Now these people have found this little handle here on wiki, which I, following my interest in Scholem's historical studies apparently helped shape and make it perhaps "notable" by last editing in April 13, 2007, and they want to use it to spread and advertise their political enterprise. What can I say? This article to begin with is just a little stub, baretly notable by wiki standards, except that there are historical sources referring to it, which I myself helped establish and expand. Who in the whole wide worls pays attention to this little forgotten, really unnotable stub of a wiki article. The only reason I ended up paying attention is becaause I once edited and contributed reliable sources to it, so it remained there in my 'watchlist' unnoticed, half forgotten, for almost 5 years or so. And now, some unsigned and unidentified 'agents' want to claim on wiki that it was "apparently" revived (on an encyclopedia, mind you). But what do I care? You want to use it as I tried to describe above? Go ahead, be my guest. For the record, I completely support the Palestinian struggle for their own human rights, on a par with the rights claimed by Jews in Palestine/Israel. I just hope they can sometime coexist together in some form, instead of just killing each other forever, even though it may not be finally possible in reality. As for Scholem, he must be surely "spinning in his grave" by this uninteded use of his "invention." But again, dead people do not have any control over the possible future use of their "ideas," and Scholem himself had, in my view, some very wrong other historical ideas (about which this is certainy not the proper place to argue). warshy ^talk 18:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - I appreciate that. For the record, the statements made by Hannah Arendt in that video are in fact statements made by Hannah Arendt, in various place, reorganized into the form of a speech... Also for the record... as far I understand it, the reactivation of the University of Muri is actually more invested in altering academic perceptions and ideas about representation and knowledge, and the relationship between fiction and reality, with a special emphasis on Jewish identity, then Israeli/Palestinian issues... though of course these things today are hard to separate. With that in mind, I cannot say whether Gershom Scholem would entirely approve of the reactivation of the University of Muri - and we know about that complexity of his relationship with Hannah Arendt - but of course he was only the co-founder of the enterprise, along with Walter Benjamin, and I think that Benjamin, at least, would have approved. Finally, I commend you for your contributions to the article on Shabtai Zevi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.198.240 (talk) 20:41, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect

Pinging everyone who contributed to the AfD discussion: Jontesta, Piotrus, Metropolitan90, Shooterwalker. Does anyone object to converting this page to a redirect to Gershom Scholem? Alduin2000 (talk) 11:42, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am fine with that. This wasn't a good close, no keep votes yet closed as no consensus. Ugh. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:08, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The AFD has a consensus that this should not be an article. I agree to a redirect. Jontesta (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Given nobody has raised any concerns, I'm going to go ahead and redirect the page. Alduin2000 (talk) 20:47, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]