Talk:Valencian cuisine

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About the user Espencat

The user espencat is a troll who only wants to use wikipedia to suport his polithical theories about the falses catalan countries. He's allways manipulating articles about Valencian region to invent references about catalonia in valencian history and deleting references that proove Valencia is not a catalonian region. For example, in this page he says that Castilla la Mancha cuisine has no influence in valencian cuisine but it's totally false. In southern valencian province and almost all Alicante province it's a very tipical dish the gazpacho manchego (you could see it here, here, here or here. He writes about things he doesn't know at all. For example, he says that All i pebre is a kind of paella when is prepared without rice. He also thinks that the typical sweet is arròs i tallaetes (arròs means rice in valencian language) instead the real name arrop i tallaetes. Finally he says that the esgarrat is made with roasted vegetables whith salted cod (false, is made only with red pepper) just to make it more similar to a catalan dish called esqueixada.

Really, espencat is very dangerous for the wikipedia because is very hard to know how many articles has manipulated. --81.203.140.224 (talk) 23:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since I'm here to improve articles, I don't want to argue and even less be insulted, as inTalk:Valencian cuisine. I'm not sure I understand when I said the things you say (certainly I have no problem with gaspacho in Valencia, typical in Alacantí, part of Costera and Vall d'Albaida, Vinalopó, etc). No problem with esgarrat being just peppers (like Pericana). I'm more of a fan of mullador, though. I think it's great you want to correct any and all mistakes I might make (after all, all of us suffer from what you say: we only know part of the country we live in). This should be collective. I have only ever undone people's changes when they have chosen to delete vast amounts of text. I don't think that's being a "troll". --Espencat (talk) 11:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the user behind 81.203.140.224 ip. I didn't insulted you, I have only say that you have a troll behavior because you delete everything that it doesn't match with your political ideas. For example, now you say that you don't have any problem with gaspacho in Valencia, but you deleted everything I wrote due to vandalisme and a lot of poor english. where is the evidence to suggest valencian cuisine has anything to do with la mancha? why delete al references to Catalonia? less politics. I know that my english is not perfect but at least I know what I'm writing about, and I knew that this manchego dish it's very comun in southern Valencia and Alicante. And of course, I didn't delete all references to Catalonia. I just deleted all references that sugested the false fact that Valencia is a part of Catalonia and valencian cuisine is a part of catalan cuisine. I ask you again, do you really think that valencian cuisine it shares almost all its dishes with Catalonia and the Balearic Islands? I think is not necessary we count how many diferent and equals dishes there are. I'm going to change some wrong things about valencian cuisine. For example wines because as you could see here] there are seven wine cellars that produce cava in Requena, one in Turís and no one in la Costera. Moreover if you visit [1] you will see that Valencia (DO) has no production in Valencia city, and there are a region in this DO that produces also Moscatel. And of course, I'm going to change the false fact you try to write everywhere that Valencia is a part of Catalonia. We have many similar things, but we also have it with other regions like Aragon, Castile-La Mancha or Murcia. Please, don't use make wikipedia an advertisiment of your political ideas --Embolat (talk) 22:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I feel you might have taken me a bit out of context and I apologise for that: i suppose the 16 letters or so that you can write in the comment when you change something doesn't let you explain. Really I should have commented more thoroughly here On the other hand, deleting the catalan part but defending the inclusion of Spaanish cuisine seems strange, why can't we say both, as the arcle currently does? And as reagrds my personal opinion, of course I think its caalan cuisine: i agree with Josep Pla. however i'm not going to challenge that all cultures overlap. I would say that equally you can't say that valencian cuisine is equally influenced by la mancha and catalonia, bacause only part of valenca s influenced by the first, whereas the second is influencal almost everywhere in valencia. You can find cocas in spanish speaking areas, but you can't find them in Castile, Aragon (but in the Franja you can) or anywhere else except l of Catalonia, and the Balearics. --Espencat (talk) 11:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking it over, I thought we could quite easily improve the first paragraph so that i takes in both Embolat's proposals and mine. First of all, I have removed the references to Spain and Catalonia: in the end, both are purely subjective and don't really add much. I think it's more interesting to talk about the specific dishes shared with Murcia, Aragon, Catalonia. In this way we can avoid arguing over how catalan Valencian cuisine is, and get on with building the article, which still has - as Embolat points out - big gaps and few references. I hope that if we make more concrete statements we can avoid politics and focus on being accurate. In this light I have changed the first paragraph. --Espencat (talk) 13:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok Espencat, I think this new first paragraph is good enough. The problem with gastronomy is that we usually don't think that it's allways changing. Paella, for example, it's a quite new dish (maybe XVIII or XIX century). If you read some recipes book of other century, for sure you could find few dishes you could recognize. With America discover we get some basic ingrendients in valencian cuisine as tomatos, peppers, beans, or potatoes and morish let us rice, oranges and all the pastry made with honey and almonds. If you take out this two influences what is valencian cuisine? By this reason is imposible to say that valencian cuisine is a part of catalan cuisine.--Embolat (talk) 23:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I agree with you, and as paella is almost worldwide these days, who can say? But I'll keep on saying it's Valencian until someone says otherwise :-) On a different note, I have change the link to bunyols because it talked about Buñol the town. we could do with a translation of this article. I have read somewhere that they are common in Almería or thereabouts, but I can't find the source. Do you know any more? --Espencat (talk) 13:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I found buñuelos in the end, and I've put it in. And xurros....--Espencat (talk) 18:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to add a few more without saying anything too contentious. In the end, I think we should limit the "See also section" to related articles - Spanish cuisine, Catalan cuisine, and Mediteranean cuisine all appear in the template immediately below and anyway, people will just keep deleting one or the other at whim. --Espencat (talk) 19:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Churros

I have deleted the false fact that churros come from Valencia inlands (comarcas churras). I have ready it in catalan wikipedia but is a fake. --Embolat (talk) 15:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know where they come from, then? --Espencat (talk) 23:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know it but I think that they should come from Castilla. They are not typical from Valencia (we preffer bunyols). Almost all my family comes from Alto Palancia and I have never seen churros there, only for partys at 4 o'clock in the morning after drinking the hole night :-D I have seen churrerias in Madrid and Seville, for example, but not in Valencian Comunity--Embolat (talk) 00:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah I'm surprised you've not seen them. No, i've not seen them outside Valencia city, apart from the Ebro delta (although that has nothing to do with it). As far as I can see they seem to be pretty much a touring thing, and most popular in madrid of course. After having checked the Catalan article with the writers, I've changed it slightly, in line with the source which states that the name may come from churro sheep (and as you say, could come from anywhere they were present, like castille). If they were at all loved here in Valencian we could put it in, but as you say, there not so popular really. Good edit! --Espencat (talk) 23:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]