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- 1 Proposed split
- 2 IP 18.104.22.168
- 3 Removal of one-off characters section
- 4 Removing previous talk comments?
- 5 Removing unnecessary words/links in summaries
- 6 Mrs. Trollman
- 7 Wallace and Douglas and Robert Trouble Goblin III
- 8 Mrs. Trollman forename
- 9 Unsourced reversions
- 10 Evidence against Wallace
- 11 Liking hugs
- 12 Main v Recurring
- 13 Genre sourcing
- 14 Cast order
- 15 Alleged future episodes and relatives
- 16 Hector and Jennifer Taylor
- 17 Foreign Voice Dubbing
- 18 return of Grab Crab
- 19 Hector and the sibling of Steve
- 20 Characters main article
- Considering an episode list sometimes gets its own page for shows under a dozen episodes long, this one definitely should get it, but in the meantime it would be good to expand the chart on the main page and add details. In particular some added columns that would be useful would be the Canadian air dates on Treehouse, whoever hosts the end segment, and the magical letter of the day, although the latter could go in the plot summary I guess. Ranze (talk) 05:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
- Canadian airdates are not relevant if this is an American series, and the other items you are proposing to add sound like trivia. Summaries would be useful, but they must be written from scratch, not copy/pasted or paraphrased from other sources. I'm not sure which episode lists you are referring to that are created with only a dozen episodes on it, but the existence of these lists doesn't mean it is preferable, only that other stuff exists. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:27, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
- Not done @22.214.171.124: Please make your request in a "please change X to Y" format and provide sources if possible, please.. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:25, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Removal of one-off characters section
In this edit I removed a list of one-off characters as non-noteworthy. Per MOS:TV, "Not every fictional character ever created deserves to be listed..." Recurring characters are fine to add, but one-offs should be limited to Wikia and similar fan sites. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:38, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps we could have a commented-out section for 1-shot chars to consult if they appear again so we can easily cite their first/second ep. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 04:13, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Removing previous talk comments?
My son, whose new account is TheLegoCat, would like to remove the section of this talk page where he requested the return of Mr. Trollman, since now the whole one-shot section has been removed. Is this an acceptable edit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 13:08, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- @184.108.40.206: Hi there, and thank you for the inquiry. It's great (and extraordinarily rare) to see parents getting involved. Typically speaking, unless the talk page content is vandalism or general chatter about the subject (e.g. "I love Wallykazam, my fave show!) it's typically considered preferable by the community that talk page comments remain, particularly once they've been replied to. I could set up an auto-archive so that it will be removed in time, but I would discourage its removal. Please see WP:TPG for more info. Thanks again for being involved and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by clicking "talk". Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:19, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
On episode 19, the summary calls the titular Dragon Games a "racist" contest. The word "racist" seems unnecessary and it's not really correct either. By definition, "racist" refers to the belief that a particular race is superior to all others, but the contest is limited by species (dragons rather than goblins), and nothing in the episode indicates a belief that either species is superior. I think "racist" needs to be removed.
Also, the summary for episode 22 links "clone dance party" to Orphan Black. I would like to remove that link as I see no relevance or similarities whatsoever between these two TV shows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oregongirl0407 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Oregongirl0407: Both changes seem reasonable to me. I could see "racist" being either an autocorrect fail (race?) or just vandalism. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:02, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- Edit: It was added here among what looks like other constructive edits. So maybe a typo. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:23, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I added that. To use an IRL parallel, if there was a "whites only marathon" wouldn't most people view that as racist? If there was a "trolls-only sprint" that would also seem racist. So limiting it to dragons only seems racist too. Racism does not require viewing one as superior, only to discriminate based on it. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
- In reference to the preceding unsigned comment: I agree that "whites only" or even "trolls only" could indeed be termed racist. In this show, though, the dragons are pets. So for a better IRL parallel, would you use racist to describe a dog race? Oregongirl0407 (talk) 22:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
- Even if Norville has a pet-like role, he's able to speak and is clearly higher than any IRL pets. Also I'm not sure ALL dragons are pets... I don't know any confirmed owner for Night Dragon or the two Snow Dragons. This has made me curious to listen more closely to the dialogue used in Hortis and Victoria's debuts to see if Bob and Steve use words like pet. Sometimes in dragon fantasy even if they give bipeds rides around they might take on more of a partner-like role. If I hear something worth citing to support pet or some kind of ownership I'll add it. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:00, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Since Mrs. Trollman appeared in a Mother's Day special, could Mr. Trollman appear in a Father's Day special. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheLegoCat (talk • contribs) 17:18, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps you could link the page you refer to for us to use as a source for her voice actress on the episode list. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Wallace and Douglas and Robert Trouble Goblin III
I believe I have seen all episodes aired in Canada and do not recall hearing these affirmed as the names of Wally and Doug and Bobgoblin. So unless they are proven in recent episodes, they sound made-up. I am going to remove them for now until they are properly cited. To know how to cite, see what I add which affirms Norville as sharing Wally's surname, per a Bobgoblin quote.
@TheLegoCat: looking back further in the history it appears you were the one who originally added these names. Please reply with more info explaining their source. If an episode mentions it, what is the title and how many minutes in, and who says it? Does it come from accessory material? This is disputed so if it is true and to be restored it needs to be cited, since the end credits don't address them like this. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 04:17, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
I changed Wallace and Douglas back and I added a citation for Robert Trouble Goblin III. @ThundermanLover1: and @Nikkimaria: why did you put the edits just deleted and remove my citation. I put my edits for the request I got here.TheLegoCat (talk) 00:29, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
- I just removed these names, there were no cites next to them. You cited his Wikia page for RTG3 @TheLegoCat: that is why it got reverted. People can make up whatever they want on wikis, you need a better source. Like if it exists in an episode or accessory materials. Perhaps ask whoever added it to Wikia where they got the name and see if they can explain themself. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:33, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
I noticed on Wikia it says "His full name is Robert Trouble Goblin III, according to the pilot." So if this is true it tells us where to look. If this is mentioned in the pilot, someone please say how many minutes into it and supply a quote. What exactly is the pilot, Naptime for Borgelorp? If so I can rewatch it myself and supply a cite if confirmed. I don't remember hearing it but would not have been listening for it at the time. I checked this purported transcript and "Robert" does not appear on it.
According to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/backiesguppieswally/posts/930704243634453), it says that the pilot episode is called "Monty's Magic Words" which is the basis of the episode "How to Bathe Your Own Dragon" but I haven't found the episode. TheLegoCat (talk) 19:24, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I've tried messaging "BackyardigansKaibigan", the wikia user who put Bob's full name on his wikia page, and my message didn't appear. Maybe it's because I'm blocked from that wikia because they thought I was putting false in. Perhaps you could ask "BackyardigansKaibigan" where he saw it. TheLegoCat (talk) 18:35, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
I've asked BackyardigansKaibigan where he saw it: http://wallykazam.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:3938. He said that a Australian Viacom Vimeo account posted pilots of many modern Nick Jr. shows. Monty's Magic Words was one of the uploads. During the episode, there's a scene where Wally (who in that episode was named Monty) calls Bobgoblin out for causing trouble. Bob then replied to Wally/Monty as something like "My middle name is Trouble... *pauses contently* Robert Trouble Goblin III. *lifts three fingers "the Third!" But here's the bad news. The account no longer exists and all I could find is this clip from the episode:https://vimeo.com/49648562.TheLegoCat (talk) 23:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Mrs. Trollman forename
- Thank you for the citation, now that we know the source is Rock and Troll this will be easy enough to listen for when it debuts in Canada. I will check how the CC spells it when it is said, and what she is called in the end credits. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
@ThundermanLover1: in Special:Diff/702414418 you removed reliably sourced information (that Bobgoblin referred to Betty as Elizabeth) and re-inserted unreliably sourced information (Wally being short for Wallace, Doug being short for Douglas, Bob being short for Robert Trouble Goblin III).
Please stop doing that. There has not been any consensus regarding proper sourcing here. When asked people just referred to Wikia. We need something like dialogue from an episode or official use in merchandising or FAQ from developers... I mean SOMETHING other than some Wikia guy adding the info.
I am reverting this and please stop adding it back until you have sourced it.
@ThundermanLover1: you also in Special:Diff/702578111 actually REMOVED a sourced episode citation. Are you attempting to vandalize the article by removing support for things that disagree with you? Bob does call her Elizabeth in this episode. If you'd like I can record it again and get a rough minute mark as well as a quote. Please do not remove it again. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 20:10, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Evidence against Wallace
The claim that Wally is short for Wallace is one that keeps getting added back without supporting citation. I have seen most of the eps and never heard it. If this did happen it would be a simple matter of citing the episode title (or some other source like a game or toy if that is here it comes from) because at least it gives doubters like me a place to go look and either affirm or deny the claim through vetting.
One reason I actively doubt this is Bobgoblin. He has a penchant for using full names. Not just using last names, but also un-shortening abbreviations. Wally refers to the yeti as "Betty Yeti" while Bobgoblin addresses her as "Miss Elizabeth Yeti" for example.
So if Wally was actually short for Wallace, one would expect Bobgoblin to say "Wallace Trollman" but instead he says "Wally Trollman". It would be one thing if he was polite to girls and rude to boys, but he's being polite to Wally by using his last name, so why not in using his full first name if it is actually Wallace?
That's why I think it isn't, and am skeptical of people adding this with zero cites to back it up. Keep in mind that there are other names that this can be short for, such as Walter or Wallabee
I can't recall if Bobgoblin ever addressed Ogre Doug or not for evidence against the 'Douglas' claims. That still needs a cite affirming it though.
Right now this all sounds like me coming along and declaring Gina Giant MUST be short for Regina Giant, never mind that nobody has actually said Regina. Or that Libby Light Sprite MUST be short for Liberty Light Sprite. Or that Stan of the Swamp MUST be short for Stanford of the Swamp.
We can't just add any name we like, it's OR, this requires citation to support when it is not their WP:COMMONNAME. So get the cites or stop re-adding it.18.104.22.168 (talk) 12:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
@ThundermanLover1: you are once more invited to this talk page to engage in conversation about your edits. Please see the sections above, your addition of doubtful unsourced information will continue to be removed until it can be sourced. I am not against including this information if it is accurate. If you can locate even the slightest hint of where it originates to point us in a direction to research I would be happy to help you verify it if it is true, but I really doubt that it is.
On the note of a more conservative issue, Special:Diff/704001516 is whether we ought to claim that Doug likes hugging. While that is certainly possible, in fact very probable (liking to hug is a popular motivation to initiate hugs) it is still WP:OR to say this if we can't source it. I understand the desire to jump to assume a character likes to do something because we see them regularly do it and they appear enthusiastic about it, but we are not experts at assessing fictional yellow ogre behavior so we don't have the authority to make that claim.
We can report on what is actually observed: that he does hugging. If he says in the show "I like to hug" then we can also report that he says that. But to actually report on his emotional state would require some kind of out-of-universe declaration. For example if you found a character description from Nick Jr. that said "Ogre Doug loves to hug" that would be a reliable source and it could be cited to support such a statement.
We just need to distinguish because what is effectively "word of god" from the creators about a character, and what is merely fan speculation regarding a character.
Until we are told otherwise by the creators, the possibility still exists (however improbably) that Ogre Doug is a jaded soul who actually dislikes physical contact with others, but initiates hugs and pretends to like doing so because he wants people to like him. Obviously I wouldn't add such a claim to the page: it's unsourced too, but it serves as an example that hugging a lot doesn't necessarily mean you like to hug people. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 13:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
@ThundermanLover1: have left multiple messages at User talk:ThundermanLover1 asking you to discuss your reasoning here at the talk but you have neglected to do so. Eventually other parties may have to get involved, like requesting a third opinion or sanctions if you don't stop adding unsourced information that has been contested. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 18:00, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
- Cut it. There's too much in-universe information in the article anyway. Character lists should be focused on real-world. ThundermanLover1, you need to participate or your editing privileges are likely to be interrupted. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:03, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Main v Recurring
What would our criteria be for this? Appearing in show's opening means main, everyone else is non-main? Lately it seems like Hattie has been appearing as much as Doug. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 08:22, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
- Fantasy: described by animeOneline and upagames says "world of fantasy", parents-choice says it has "fantastical" story elements. This seems like it obviously belongs due to the prevalence of dragons, magic, trolls/ogres/giants, fairies, etc.
- zap2it also says fantasy, and adds children/educational as well. Is this okay for these 3 genres? I see people cite zap2it all the time for dates.
- the show's FB calls it an interactive comedy for preschoolers, also at http://www.nickjr.co.uk/shows/wallykazam/ if you go to the bottom and click 'about' it says "an animated interactive comedy for children centred on the adventures of Wally"
- "Adventure" I think should qualify as genre due to this phrasing as well, if the comedy centers on adventures then it is adventure-comedy. This language recurs " Each adventure has a new set of magic words".
- "Animated" is an obvious genre because the show is animated. It is also mentioned before 'interactive' above.
I'll have to dig further for a 'musical' cite. This is something obvious to watchers (thing's about as musical as Backyardigans) but finding this pointed out in sources could take some more looking. Admittedly I could have over-reacted in saying science fiction. It's just that when a sci-fi element like a jetpack "pollutes" an otherise pure fantasy/medieval setting, it's usually worth a notable mention even if it's rare. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 06:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- 220.127.116.11 - Hi there. Skipping through most of them, (animeOneline, for instance is a blog, which is not acceptable per WP:UGC) Zap would be fine. Though I know you mean well, I'm not clear why you're going out of your way to find references that suit your interpretation instead of just going with what Zap says and moving on to the next thing. A show can have music without being a musical. Sesame Street has lots of music, but isn't classified as a musical. Genre is the overall shape that a work takes. The field is not intended to describe every element that you might find in the series. Case in point, the sci-fi thing. As you have acknowledged, a jetpack does not a sci-fi series make, because the overall shape is not "jetpacks rocketing through space and time". Another example: all comedies utilize drama. Comedy does not work without drama. But it would be wrong to describe Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm as a comedy-drama. During the discussions that led to the
|genre=parameter needing to be sourced in the infobox, some editors wanted to limit it to 2 because film articles only encourage a main genre and a relevant sub-genre. So maybe as a challenge, instead of working hard to jam pack the four-genre limit, why not try to keep it to two? Fantasy, Educational? Done. Animation is more of a medium than a genre. Children is sort of a genre, but it's completely omittable. Genre is a rabbit hole that some people fall into trying to get things juuuuuust right, but then they can never escape. Yikes! Take care, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:08, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
So with the recent flip-flop of Bob/Stan I wonder if we could discuss what the basis is. First appearance in the opening? First appearance in the end credits of episode 1? Most appearances? As a whole, Bob definitely appears more often than Stan (I'd actually say Bob is a primary and Stan a secondary character) so I have no objection to him being listed first.
Actually, Bob probably appears more than Doug and Libby too. It'd be a complex project to do up an episode count or minutes-on-screen count but he'd probably tie for third with Gina after Wally/Norville in terms of exposure on the show. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:17, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Alleged future episodes and relatives
What is the source of this information? Even though it's commented out it would be good to confirm this, and if you have a reliable source I would like to list this on the episode list page. They are not scheduled on Treehouse yet on my guide, where did you hear of them?
I am also interested in exact quotes for "Mrs. Light Sprite" in "Mission for Mom" and "Mrs. Giant" in "Dawn of the Zuccini" or Momgoblin in "The Great Missing Potato" (and Twitter Page? since when do the characters have Twitter accounts? Link please, would like to confirm if they are official or fan-made). I don't recall hearing the names of these three moms and have seen all 3 episodes. I may have a re-watch to confirm this but if you could provide a minute mark or guide on where to listen for these names being said, that would be helpful for me to cite the quotes. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 15:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Besides the March 20 edit, I did notice in 2015that someone added these two titles (along with 2 others) to the episodes page of the Wikia project for the show:
- Big Brother Wally on August 15
- Hide and Seek on August 15
- Wally's trip to the Wallyworld on October 16
- Wally's Cousin on October 17
The first/last sound about as credible as the middle two though. How do we know these aren't just made up? If the titles have been known for over half a year then why haven't any sources turned up for them? 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I contacted User talk:TheLegoCat requesting an explanation and have so far not received one. Contacted again. Should we just remove this information if no reply is given since there is no evidence? The commented-out area is for verified data on 1-shot characters in case they appear again, not rumoured-to-appear-in-the-future ones. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:05, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Hector and Jennifer Taylor
special:diff/712810073 claimed Mr. Trollman's first name is Hector. I don't recall hearing that in the episodes I've seen although there's one I haven't, but I've only seen him credited as Mr. Trollman and called "dad" so I think proof is needed. I am going to contact the user who added it and it can be restored if they supply evidence but I will remove it since no supporting cite was given.
The account was banned since 'staff' generally denotes plurality but it might just be a grammar issue.
If a Wikipedian is going to be allowed to claim they are a developer of the show then it should probably require proof of it like them making a statement from a neutral place. Maybe from Paper Dog Studio? 184.108.40.206 (talk) 17:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- The user was not banned, the account was blocked. The user is still allowed to create a new account, provided it is consistent with our user name guidelines. I would, however, recommend that everyone here be circumspect. Just because someone claims to be an representative of a primary source does not mean that they actually are. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Mr. Trollman's name was revealed in "A Very Villainous Vacation", his forename was actually Howard. But users change my edit to Hector because it was from IMDB. But IMDB is not s valid source. The good news is that IMDB does not say it anymore. TheLegoCat (talk) 21:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Foreign Voice Dubbing
@BeaksGirl1:: as @Cyphoidbomb: said, "Seek consensus via discussion for UK voice content. Presumably the series is dubbed in numerous languages across the world. Why are we endeavoring to start cataloging them?" I re-reverted your addition of UK voice actors. TheLegoCat (talk) 23:37, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- There's no clear value to the inclusion of this data. This is not a UK series, so arbitrarily adding the UK voice actors to the article is confusing and unnecessary. There's no provision at MOS:TV for the random cataloging of international voice actors. This sort of information would be relevant if this was a UK co-production, perhaps. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
return of Grab Crab
@TheLegoCat: re special:diff/728836455 I believe Grab Crab did make another appearance after Goblin Cold. I might have written it down but not sure if I did or where. I believe he showed up in one of those post-episode end segments as a cameo or something. Would anyone like to keep an eye out so we can find this data and be able to openly list him as a recurring character? Ranze (talk) 07:47, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- TheLegoCat thanks for the continued interest. I suppose one day I'll have to re-watch some episodes but I generally put that off for years because there's so much unwatched stuff to catch up on. Does anyone know if there's any legally free online episodes like Nick's YT where I could just skip to the end segments to watch for grab crab? Pretty sure that's where I saw him recur... if not then I must have saw him get a cameo in an episode body and that would be much harder to check. Ranze (talk) 06:21, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Hector and the sibling of Steve
I only just now noticed that someone added that as the forename (given name) of Mr. Trollman. No source was given, like the quote that was eventually cited for Linda, so that's a problem.
In looking for who edited the 'humanoids' section I first noticed special:diff/747027521 from October 31st where the claim was introduced that Steve is Mrs. Trollman's brother. I'd like to see a cite supporting that too.
Finally found special:diff/714523166 from April where some mobile device user added it anonymously. This makes me all the more skeptical. I'll drop them a Q but @2602:306:cce3:9430:c1a4:aea3:d757:190b: hasn't edited since the 2 in April, I know those are prone to rotating. Ranze (talk) 16:42, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
Characters main article
@Ranze:, I was just thinking of having a main article for the characters section. Since there is now a main article for the episode guide, could we have a main article for the characters? TheLegoCat (talk) 22:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)