Talk:Water castle

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Is there such a thing?[edit]

I am not convinced there is such a thing as a "water castle" in English. The title and the article appear to be a literal translations from German and the article is entirely uncited. Should it be merged with moat? Google finds no relevant hits for "water castle" apart from this article. We could equally translate the term from French, in which "chateau d'eau" means a water tower. Cyclopaedic (talk) 18:01, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

As explained in the article, a moated castle is a type of water castle, so merging this with moat would cause confusion as not all water castles are moated.
The term tends to be used of castles in Europe, where they occur in greater numbers. Here are some examples:
  • The Medieval Fortress: Castles, Forts and Walled Cities of the Middle Ages (2004): "Not far from the modern day capital of Brussels... stands the water castle of Beersel."
  • Château Gaillard: études de castellologie médiévale, V : actes du colloque (1994): "...and Kirby Muxloe, Leicestershire, at a comparable quadrilateral water castle..."
  • Flanders (1993): "Wulveringem, a district of Veurne, is renowned principally for Beauvoorde water castle".
  • The Rhine and its castles (1957): "...Gudenau. It is a water castle on the way to the Ahr valley..."
  • American Architect and Architecture: "...whether Roman, Renaissance, Medieval or Rococo; whether hill or water castle..."

Bermicourt (talk) 21:28, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm happy with the article's current scope. Merging the article wouldn't be entirely accurate, as you could have dry moats. Nev1 (talk) 08:51, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
I've now seen lowland castle and it seems a whole series of articles on the classification of castles has been translated from the German. Most or the references cited above look like translations. I don't think English-language Wikipedia should be importing its article structure, and writing articles about a classification and technical terms that only exist in German, unless we are writing specifically about German castles. There are plenty of English-language sources and terms about castles. finding UK examples of castles that fit this German classification system doesn't make it an appropriate structure for English Wikipedia. If we want to explain the German analysis, an article on Castles in Germany might be appropriate; at present that redirects to List of castles in Germany - though it seems there are only 16 of them. Cyclopaedic (talk) 10:00, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
The references above are all English language sources, not translations. I'm satisfied the term is used in English alongside the more common subordinate term, "moated castle".
"Lowland castle", etc., are also terms used in English language sources.
Wikipedia doesn't exclude scholarly articles simply because they originate in another language. Otherwise we would close off vast areas of scholarly research.
The descriptions are general and not limited to modern-day Germany. So applying the terms purely to Germany would be artificial.
Look more closely at List of castles in Germany - there are links to the 16 lists of castles in German states, not just 16 castles.
Bermicourt (talk) 10:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't care if all the sources were in German, French, or Russian; this isn't an encyclopedia of English thought. If it's verifiable that's all that’s needed. Add that to the fact that it can be found in publications such as Château Gaillard – the leading international journal on castle studies – should be enough to demonstrate the term is genuine. The question about scope was fair, but as has been pointed out moat and water castle are not interchangeable terms. Nev1 (talk) 12:00, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I'd agree that the sources don't need to be in English and that the term is a genuine one. I think that it might be worth stressing in the intro that the term tends to be primarily used by European (non-British European!) academics etc., and some references in the article itself would be really great (I think it's currently unreferenced). Hchc2009 (talk) 15:28, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Hchc. I'm happy to work on that. Bermicourt (talk) 15:30, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
To cap this off I have now cited an actual English definition of a water castle by James Forde-Johnston in Great Medieval Castles of Britain which must also count as a pretty authoritative English language source... and in a book about British castles! Bermicourt (talk) 20:27, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Gotthard Water Castle[edit]

In Switzerland Gotthard mountain region is also called a "water castle" because 4 rivers are going down from ther to the 4 different directions

This is standard learning in Swiss school system.

Michael Palomino, June 5, 2016 (talk) 16:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC)